"...Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." Matthew 16:16

[Genesis315]

Supposedly, Jesus is said by some Christians to have built His Church upon these very words often referred to as “Peter’s Confession”.

Somehow, this incident transfers to the present in that anybody who makes this “confession” will have Jesus Church built upon them or something like that.

Would one of you “Peter’s Confessioners” explain this to me since I’ve heard at least 1/2 a dozen different takes on it?

Thank you.

Actually, as Catholics we believe it to be both–Peter and His faith–he’s the rock because of his faith which our Lord prayed for so he could confirm the brethren. That is why, as St. Ireanaus said, every church has to agree with Rome and why St. Paul had to have his gospel approved by St. Peter. Even to this day, the profession of faith proclaimed and confirmed by the successors of Peter is the binding standard for the whole Church (that’s what papal infallibility is all about).

(that doesn’t mean Peter will not sin of course).

 

[Genesis315]

Actually, as Catholics we believe it to be both–Peter and His faith–he’s the rock because of his faith which our Lord prayed for so he could confirm the brethren. That is why, as St. Ireanaus said, every church has to agree with Rome and why St. Paul had to have his gospel approved by St. Peter. Even to this day, the profession of faith proclaimed and confirmed by the successors of Peter is the binding standard for the whole Church (that’s what papal infallibility is all about).

(that doesn’t mean Peter will not sin of course).

As an aside, St. John Chrysostom’s commentary on that passage shows this well

newadvent.org/fathers/200154.htm

 

[justinthemartyr]

Looks like its been explained to you. The revelation was from God, but the confession was Peter’s. It wasn’t a voice from heaven which sounded like thunder that came out of Peter’s mouth.

“…and upon THIS rock I will build My church.” “This” (toute) refers to Peter’s confession. He didn’t say “and upon you I will build My church.” Christ’s church is being build upon the foundation that He’s the Messiah, Son of the living God. It’s all quite simple and straightforward. The confusion is not from Scripture, but self-serving men.

If it is in no way Cephas that Christ built his church upon, then why did Jesus change Simon’s name to rock(cephas,kephas)? in john 1:42 ?

he could have named him ANYTHING according to the billions and trillions of things he created from nothing, yet Jesus named him rock. i wonder why…

and so who is thinking like a mere man here?

 

[2ndGen]

I don’t understand what you are saying. Am I misunderstanding you?

I think so.

The text says nothing about God putting words in Peter’s mouth. It says that God revealed to Peter, that Jesus was the Christ.

“Blessed art thou, Simon, Son of John, for flesh and blood has not reveal this to you, but my Father Who is in Heaven.”

The text is clear that it is Peter’s confession. God is revealing and Peter is proclaiming/confessing.

But what scripture clearly states is that this revelation is “not” of man (Peter is included with what a “man” is), but of God.

Peter is confessing (for the twelve) that they understand Jesus is more than a prophet.

Or course a Papist like myself is going to agree with that!

Peace,

Ryan

Assalam Alaikum my brother in Christ!

 

[2ndGen]

Yeah, this is basically what I was getting at. The revelation was God’s, the courage to actually say it aloud was Peter’s.

Then, it wasn’t upon Peter’s “confession”, but upon his "courage’?

I believe that God moved Peter to answer Jesus.

The answer was obvious. They all knew Who Jesus was, so why were they silent now?

I can’t think of a single example in the Bible of God actually forcing words out of someone’s mouth. He gives them the revelation, and lets them say it on their own.

I remember God saying (if I’m not mistaken) “I will puy my words in your/their mouth(s).”

Just as we believe the Bible was inspired by God, it was written by the minds of men. They could have just sat there after being inspired. The prophets could have ignored God’s calling. Peter could have remained silent after receiving his revelation. God gives all of us gifts, but He doesn’t force us to use them. He leaves that up to us

Isaiah 51:16
“I have put My words in your mouth and have covered you with the shadow of My hand, to establish the heavens, to found the earth, and to say to Zion, ‘You are My people.’”

 

[2ndGen]

If it is in no way Cephas that Christ built his church upon, then why did Jesus change Simon’s name to rock(cephas,kephas)? in john 1:42 ?

he could have named him ANYTHING according to the billions and trillions of things he created from nothing, yet Jesus named him rock. i wonder why…

and so who is thinking like a mere man here?

Well, I think the belief goes something like this:

Jesus changed Simon’s name to rock,
but He didn’t mean that Simon was a rock.

Then after changing his name to rock,
He says He’ll build His Church upon rock,
but not on rock (Peter).



Even though every 2nd Generation Carpenter (as was Jesus) knows,
foundations back then that houses/churches were built upon
were made of rock.



Take away all of the Greek derived words and just say it in plain English…

“…you are rock and upon this rock I will build My Church.”

Does that simplify matters any?

 

[ryanoneil]

Another good example of this is in Gal 1:11-16. Paul is the one preaching the gospel but he received it through a revelation from Jesus. Then he uses the same saying in v16: “I did not immediately consult flesh and blood.”

Assalam Alaikum my brother in Christ!

What is the translation of that saying?

Peace,

Ryan

 

[2ndGen]

=ryanoneil;3280528]

Another good example of this is in Gal 1:11-16. Paul is the one preaching the gospel but he received it through a revelation from Jesus. Then he uses the same saying in v16: “I did not immediately consult flesh and blood.”

I like that! You know I’m going to steal (cough, cough), I mean “borrow” that!

What is the translation of that saying?

It’s Arabic for “peace be unto you”.

Peace

,

Pax.

 

[ryanoneil]

I like that! You know I’m going to steal (cough, cough), I mean “borrow” that!

It’s Arabic for “peace be unto you”.

Feel free and thank you. I’ll see if I can find some others after my show is done.

Peace,

Ryan

 

[2ndGen]

Feel free and thank you. I’ll see if I can find some others after my show is done.

Peace,

Ryan

 

[ryanoneil]

2 Pet1:20-21 Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God.

How about this one?

 

[2ndGen]

2 Pet1:20-21 Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God.

How about this one?

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

 

[BAGB17]

God says over 50 times in His bible that the rock is Jesus Christ, ,specifically

believe God?

 

[2ndGen]

God says over 50 times in His bible that the rock is Jesus Christ, ,specifically

believe God?

But God also says that Simon is “The Rock” literally.

Do “you” believe The Word of God when He says that Simon is “Rock”?

Believe God?



(Oh, by the way, everytime you see the word “Peter” in The Word of God, substitute it for the word “rock”…and if you use the amount of times a word is mentioned to use as a standard of “who” is “rock”? Peter’s name is mentioned more…try 155 times that Peter is called “rock”.)

 

[Genesis315]

Of course, the fact that Christ is called the rock shows the huge significance of Him naming Peter that–it shows that Peter will be His Vicar in the Church on earth

 

[Isa_Almisry]

But God also says that Simon is “The Rock” literally.

Do “you” believe The Word of God when He says that Simon is “Rock”?

Believe God?



(Oh, by the way, everytime you see the word “Peter” in The Word of God, substitute it for the word “rock”…and if you use the amount of times a word is mentioned to use as a standard of “who” is “rock”? Peter’s name is mentioned more…try 155 times that Peter is called “rock”.)

Matthew 16:23
But he turned, and said to Peter (or am I supposed to say “Rock”?), “Get behind me, Satan! You are a **stumbling block **to me, for you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of men.”

Btw, yes, “petra” does appear in the NT (as does “patriarch,” but not “pope.”).
e.g.1 Corinthians 10:4 .
and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of a spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ.