Thoughts on Lust

[Dimmesdale]

Hello all,

I have recently had trouble with lust (I am a male)… I feel like I need to talk about this more with someone, preferably a priest, but until that time maybe this forum will suffice. I really think I need someone to talk about this openly.

I don’t really know myself or my own body. I feel that sexuality is something seriously distorted in me. I am heterosexual, but the only type of sexuality that tempts me is sodomy, which is abnormal I suppose. In the past, before I recommitted myself to rejecting all sorts of sexual sins, I thought maybe it wasn’t that bad. I relabelled porn as “erotica” and thought that I could still look at it… But now I see any looking at women in a sexual way, even if “artistic” is wrong. Because it feeds into my lustful propensities.

I have never had a healthy approach to the opposite sex. For this reason I have decided that I will never marry or have any kind of romantic relationship with a woman. However, is this really my vocation then? I am not called to the priesthood, I think. I don’t think that is my calling. Yet, maybe I DID have a natural sexual instinct, but now because of years of sinful indulgence it has become hopelessly distorted.

Yet, am I supposed to be a Puritan in the extreme sense, where I should not even look at a loosely clad woman? Even a minor glance at an attractive female conjures up all sorts of dark and lustful emotions in me. I wish I could appreciate, in other words, female beauty, without becoming controlled by a dominating lust. This doesn’t seem natural in me, but I don’t know where to go. It is summer, as everyone knows, and every now and then I see a woman who is attractive, and this brings up lust… There are times when I don’t want to get out of the house. Can someone please pray and counsel me? Thank you.

P.S. I also want to say that I disagree with current psychology that says “everything is ok” in sex. It is not all ok. But at the same time I don’t want to demonize sex. How can I find a good middle ground?

 

[littlered123]

. . . .

Have you ever had close relationships with women? Even just those in your family? Maybe that would help you to see them as normal human beings

You definitely shouldn’t give up on the idea of marriage just because you have sexual temptations or sin. maybe you need to approach that with a counselor. But there is nothing wrong with finding a woman attractive. Just avoid porn and form healthy relationships with women and that should help. You will make it worse if you obsess about it. You can’t avoid women forever and you shouldn’t. Unless you are tempted to do really horrible things involving them in which case you need outside help and it doesn’t seem like that is your problem.

 

[Mythicalbio]

Mortification of the eyes is part of Christian living, it is best not to look at things that tempt. Sirach says: You should not stare at another man’s wife, nor pursue his handmaid, nor approach her bed. … Have shame of looking at a woman of fornication … You should not stare at a virgin, lest perhaps you may be scandalized by her beauty. … Do not choose to look around in the streets of the city, nor should you wander along its thoroughfares. … Avert your face from an ornate woman, for you should not gaze upon strange beauty… Many have perished because of the beauty of a woman; and by this, desire is kindled like a fire… Many, by admiring the beauty of the wife of another, have become reprobate. For familiarity with her flares up like a fire… You should not look with favor on a woman with many desires, lest perhaps you may fall into her traps.

Many Saints also say, including St. Alphonsus that in the battle of the senses, cowards conquer.

Now, we can not always be shut off from the senses, so know that custody of the mind is better, to pray when tempted and never trust yourself. Pray Hail Mary’s during temptation and don’t stop until it is firmly over.

Know also that it is not hopeless, distortion and order can be restored by practicing the virtues of chastity and purity. Talk to a priest about it you should marry, it is possible to not have a vocation though. Remember the saying, whoever is intemperate with his wife is an adulterer. So if you can’t be temperate and chaste in marriage then don’t marry, but a priest can advise you better.

Eventually you’ll find these unchaste inclinations fixed. You don’t need to go around admiring other people’s beauty, as Sirach warns and also the Saints. There is nothing puritan in this. Read St. Alphonsus on the way to chastity here: THE CHASTITY OF MARY

Don’t take this as a prohibition on being near women though, that can’t be done and is just hiding the real problem which is yourself. Fast on Wednesdays and Fridays and pray repeatedly until your inclinations are fixed. It doesn’t take that long, here is a list of means that are helpful:

This site is filled with psychological information about chastity and means to achieve it: http://chastitysf.com

 

[meltzerboy2]

First of all, psychology does NOT say " ‘everything is OK’ in sex." If the sexual experience is harmful to you or others, it is definitely not OK.

In your case, your sexual drives seem to be disturbing to you. This means you should seek counsel and guidance from a professional clinical psychologist and/or a priest.

Meanwhile, I would not be too quick to limit the rest of your life. Don’t fall into that mindset. Your situation is not hopeless, even if it is not normal. And in fact it is not so atypical either. Many men are torn by lust and have difficulty differentiating between lust and love. This is something you can sort out in the context of your own upbringing by conversing with a psychologist and a priest.

Don’t give up on life and happiness before you’ve even begun the journey.

 

[Veritas6]

I have recently had trouble with lust (I am a male)…

I totally understand what you’re going through, I am a heterosexual male as well.

I am heterosexual, but the only type of sexuality that tempts me is sodomy, which is abnormal I suppose.

You are not abnormal for the involuntary tempting thoughts that come into your mind. I also have struggled with temptations of sodomy but I do not feed these. The only thing that matters is what you do with these thoughts.

In the past, before I recommitted myself to rejecting all sorts of sexual sins, I thought maybe it wasn’t that bad. I relabelled porn as “erotica” and thought that I could still look at it… But now I see any looking at women in a sexual way, even if “artistic” is wrong. Because it feeds into my lustful propensities.

I get this. You need to first remove the images or access to such on your devices. Covenant Eyes or iPhone Restrictions with an accountability partner is a must (for me). Without access to these images/videos I can better appreciate the dignity and beauty of women in a chaste, respectful manner. Avoid that stupid “artistic” stuff that allows nudity. If it turns you on it is porn.

I have never had a healthy approach to the opposite sex. For this reason I have decided that I will never marry or have any kind of romantic relationship with a woman.

What is this unhealthy approach you have to women? We need to first identify what is bothering you, do not throw in the towel on having a real relationship, I know you can fight this.

Even a minor glance at an attractive female conjures up all sorts of dark and lustful emotions in me. I wish I could appreciate, in other words, female beauty, without becoming controlled by a dominating lust.

First remove access to porn in your life. Out on the street you need to have diligence to see women as they are and not pieces of flesh. Avoid looking at the body and concentrate on her face; you see the whole woman as she is: a child of God.

You will be able to appreciate female beauty as God’s gift, but do not engage the temptations that arise in you against your will.

Do not try to suppress the temptation, but rather accept that it is there, but do not allow the temptation to control you.

Example: I see a very attractive woman in front of me. I acknowledge that her body is beautiful and I thank God for her beauty. Then I move on, I do not linger on staring or allow tempting thoughts to invade my peace. I focus on her face and it is even more beautiful from a respectful distance.

This is a daily battle, remember the bigger picture and allow yourself to accept women as beautiful children of God. You got this brother.

 

[Vico]

… I disagree with current psychology that says “everything is ok” in sex. It is not all ok. But at the same time I don’t want to demonize sex. How can I find a good middle ground?

Are you looking to understand the Catholic teaching? It is actually very simple but at the same time difficult to follow. It is from the sixth and ninth commandments. The essence is stated by Fr. John Hardon in the Modern Catholic Dictionary on masturbation:

Direct stimulation of the sex organs outside of sexual intercourse. The self-stimulation can be physical, by means of some external object, or psychic, by means of thoughts and the imagination. It is a grave misuse of the procreative faculty and when done with full consent and deliberation is a serious sin. The sinfulness consists in setting in motion the generative powers while preventing them from achieving, their natural, divinely intended purpose.

Notice the phrase “setting in motion the generative powers” – now this includes even the increased heart beat or the slight secretion from the Bartholin’s glands in females or the Cowper’s glands in males that is preparatory to marital union. Now internal and external acts can be involuntary, indirectly voluntary, and directly voluntary. The reproductive system is activated sometimes in sleep which is involuntary, or other times when not intended, for example by exercise. Indirectly voluntary is more complex.

Modern Catholic Dictionary, Indirect Voluntary (Definition)

The unintended but foreseen consequence of something that is deliberately willed. This consequence is not desired either as an end or as means, but a person sees that he cannot get something else without getting it. He wills the cause of which this is a necessary effect.

We are called to avoid the near and voluntary occasions of sin. So one is obliged to avoid setting in motion the generative powers. That activation also includes the excitation of the mind, which controls the physiology.

So there are two voluntary sources of temptation and sin: dwelling on lustful thoughts and physical actions. Now this can even happen (psychic or physical) in marriage when there is not a reasonable expectation of completing the marital act properly.

 

[RepetantCatholic]

Well, OK, I hope I can help. I was exposed to porn at seventeen and gave it up at twenty seven and I am now 39. During, that time I began to pray the rosary and in the last year Divine Office.

I can honestly write, after not having seen porn in over ten years, I can look at any woman in real life and just see a person, instead of an object of desire. I too will not marry, but it is because I suffer from inheritable illness so I cannot have children.

What I love to see are couples that are equally yoked not based on looks, this is the majority of couples I see. I don’t judge or condemn anyone especially women who are more superficial about their looks, I just hope they find the right match. Again, in me there is never a longing or desire. This is the point I want you to get too.

The way to get here from my experience, is to give up all porn. Pray without ceasing. Don’t give in to the ways of the world which I know are wrong.

I will wait for your reply to guide further. But we’re I to get married the only form of sex I would have is missionary position where it is respectful. Unfortunately, there is probably a generation of people who because they grew up on porn think it’s fine to treat their wife like a porn star, It’s not fine, and I’m sure while there is a population of women resigned to that there are other women who prefer reasonable, intimate sex without being devalued or objectified.

 

[RepetantCatholic]

Well, I’ll just add more and say you are very brave, so please continue along your path. Know lust and porn are wrong, but also know it is correctable. I’m living proof, I don’t regret taking that path and I don’t regret celibacy or not dating.

Here are two sites I find helpful

Divine Office – Liturgy of the Hours of the Roman Catholic Church (Breviary)

Heart of the Nation :: The Rosary - Holy Rosary Online

Again, this isn’t scruples, but as you grow stronger in Faith and move away from lust, you will reject most media including music. I recommend listening to Jazz, here is a great Jazz radio station

https://www.kkjz.org/

I myself don’t watch any tv but sports and the sports I watch are NFL, MLB, and when I can catch a game Soccer.

My only hobby is learning to play piano. I do smoke tolling tobacco with filters. But life is beautiful with prayer, the Bible, books written by Saints.

I replied to a Pope Francis tweet, and I could automatically feel blessed as I got many likes and felt people were praying for me. The reply was, “Blessed Pope Francis I know what sin feels like. Since feels like anxiety, fear mixed with excitement. Some people jump out of plains with parachutes to get this feeling. I know what Peace feels like, Peace’s feels like contentment, gratitude, love.”

Again, I found the feelings of sin and lust to be akin to each other.

 

[Dimmesdale]

Sodomy(oral or anal) really isn’t uncommon or even unnatural I don’t think In a heterosexual relationship.its not uncommon for people to explore their sexuality even in “immoral” ways.

Yeah… I’ve heard that too. This is what I mean by much of present day psychology saying all sex acts being “ok”, that these things are in a sense neutral, that we only misinterpret them to be “dirty” or “forbidden” and that that only makes them negative. MY problem is, I find “forbidden” things themselves enticing. I ENJOY ideas of domination and, I suppose, even abuse. These fantasies are an inseparable part of sexual pleasure for me. Without these ideas, not so much.

Have you ever had close relationships with women? Even just those in your family? Maybe that would help you to see them as normal human beings

MY only real close relationship with women was with my mother and grandmother. I only had a girlfriend once and that didn’t get too serious. I won’t say anymore about that - I don’t want to divulge too much about myself, after all. Suffice it to say I have never had a real intimate relationship with a woman and this I suppose is a problem given my lack of experience in this area.

You definitely shouldn’t give up on the idea of marriage just because you have sexual temptations or sin. maybe you need to approach that with a counselor. But there is nothing wrong with finding a woman attractive. Just avoid porn and form healthy relationships with women and that should help. You will make it worse if you obsess about it. You can’t avoid women forever and you shouldn’t. Unless you are tempted to do really horrible things involving them in which case you need outside help and it doesn’t seem like that is your problem.

I am committed to being a moral person and wouldn’t dream of hurting anyone. Except in my fantasies which I try to slay with the sword of the spirit. It’s hard though. I think I do need a good counsellor in this area, even though I don’t have much sexual desire most of the time. Let me explain: I feel the urge to satisfy my sexuality almost as a self-preservation instinct, that I am in control. I guess in my past I envied people having sex. Weirdly, I envied women having sex, not men. I got it into my head that women had more power than me. That I was impotent. So sexuality for me is all about power, expressing itself through pleasure as it were. But (sexual) pleasure is flickering and temporary and it makes me feel worse in the long run so it’s a doomed cause.

It’s hard to resist temptations that come my way without “tasting deeply enough of the spirit.” I have a blunted emotional life; that is part of my problem as well. But, I have a tremendous power of self-restraint. So I think this is part of my character gifted by God, and that I should resist temptations.

 

[Dimmesdale]

Well, OK, I hope I can help. I was exposed to porn at seventeen and gave it up at twenty seven and I am now 39. During, that time I began to pray the rosary and in the last year Divine Office.

I can honestly write, after not having seen porn in over ten years, I can look at any woman in real life and just see a person, instead of an object of desire. I too will not marry, but it is because I suffer from inheritable illness so I cannot have children.

Yeah, I have a number of complexes around women that are unhealthy. For example, seeing certain women as “whores” or envying that certain ones have had more sex than me. I know this is sinful now, but I do have these thoughts and feelings, and I still sometimes judge a woman for simply “looking” like she might be a sexually promiscuous one. It’s really hard to shake this, so I try my best not to associate with women at all, or only ones that I deem unattractive.

I suppose I should pray to Mother Mary as she alone is Pure Woman-hood. That’s actually what I’m trying to do, praying the Hail Mary now more and more. And also relating to what being a woman really is in this world, which is not just rock and roll: a lot of women are wounded in all sorts of ways, and sex isn’t everything. This is hard, because I have been addicted to masturbation and once thought there was nothing better than sex-pleasure. This is in spite of the fact that I am a virgin and always had too much anxiety to even talk to a woman.

There is more than looks. There is also the soul. But I don’t want to be a gnostic either, and I want to have actual respect for even attractive female bodies. But I suppose this will be a life long process.

 

[Dimmesdale]

We are called to avoid the near and voluntary occasions of sin. So one is obliged to avoid setting in motion the generative powers. That activation also includes the excitation of the mind, which controls the physiology.

So there are two voluntary sources of temptation and sin: dwelling on lustful thoughts and physical actions. Now this can even happen (psychic or physical) in marriage when there is not a reasonable expectation of completing the marital act properly.

I do my best to avoid stimulating the mind. I don’t watch porn anymore. I haven’t in over two months. But sometimes I see someone on the beach on television or something, and a set of emotions come upon me.

I get that the mind, body and soul are connected. I do my best to purify my existence as much as possible…

 

[Vico]

Vico:

We are called to avoid the near and voluntary occasions of sin. So one is obliged to avoid setting in motion the generative powers. That activation also includes the excitation of the mind, which controls the physiology.

So there are two voluntary sources of temptation and sin: dwelling on lustful thoughts and physical actions. Now this can even happen (psychic or physical) in marriage when there is not a reasonable expectation of completing the marital act properly.

I do my best to avoid stimulating the mind. I don’t watch porn anymore. I haven’t in over two months. But sometimes I see someone on the beach on television or something, and a set of emotions come upon me.

I get that the mind, body and soul are connected. I do my best to purify my existence as much as possible…

Yes, that happens to everyone, I suspect. In which case it is not voluntary and leaving the situation is possible and not dwelling upon the temptation is the remedy.

 

[Dimmesdale]

First remove access to porn in your life. Out on the street you need to have diligence to see women as they are and not pieces of flesh. Avoid looking at the body and concentrate on her face; you see the whole woman as she is: a child of God.

Actually, looking at woman’s face is part of the problem for me. For me, when I fantasize about women, they are not just pieces of flesh, or impersonal. Instead, at least in the past, I came up with elaborate fantasies that take into account their faces and personalities. And that’s where the obsessive element comes in. Maybe if it was impersonal and women were just body parts, I wouldn’t be so interested or so invested.

But, I think I’ve expressed myself enough for now. Porn is impersonal generally, but maybe even that is better than elaborated fantasies of women with hideous personalities.

 

[RepetantCatholic]

Perfect, you know your flaws and you know you are incorrect in thinking. Now, as someone who has had therapy, I recommend bringing all this up with a therapist.

I wish I could fix your thinking, but I would stay away from anyone online who feels the way you do. There are many online who feel that way and they are macho, but the danger in associating with them is it will reinforce bad thinking.

The only guidance I can give in your thinking other than therapy, is movies and porn make sex to be more important than it is. Women are sovereign equal individuals and a healthy woman looks for bonding, love and intimacy in a relationship. In my experience, this is the majority of women although it may not seem that way because of the online world and because of television media. Again, I don’t judge or condemn the minority of women who are hedonistic but 1) I know they are not for me 2) I pray they find their match 3) I don’t envy or occupy their circles.

But definitely go for therapy. The goal would be to better accept women without judgements or conditions and to see sex in the right context.

 

[RepetantCatholic]

Also, if I can go further always know your thinking is incorrect and never give into it. I emphasize avoid men and women online who feed into this thinking. Again, they are rampant online and I insist online is not the real world and online does not reflect the real world. Again giving into your thinking and not fighting it is the dark side.

Definitely pray the Rosary, ask for forgiveness and ask that Mother Mary or one of the angels help repair your thinking and heart. But also see a psychologist.

Finally, this might help. Maybe go to a mall or a supermarket and notice all the couples in the store of all ages. Your mind at first will gravitate to the beautiful couples, but ignore them. Instead, notice all the average or, “not good looking” couples. There is where the gold is, those couple are equally yoked because their relationship is based on a common bond not on looks. Say a prayer for those couples because they are blessed.

 

[Dimmesdale]

Thank you brother. I am already seeing a therapist. But I will continue looking to repair the damage in my heart.

And I generally don’t associate with “Incels” or misogynists, or other such people. I am an idealist at heart, and try to be with more intellectually inclined people who are into philosophy over mere social trends. Just to let you know…

 

[childinthefaith]

You need to request a meeting, not a confession just yet, with a priest. After that, then yeh, you probably do need a confession for this stuff. But what you typed out made my head spin.

Perhaps your caling is to be a chaste single person.
However, before completely discerning your calling, I think you need some counseling. If uou won’t see a priest for it, find a counselor with Christian morals to speak to, but be careful of those becasue they may well be ok with things that the Church forbids and are definitely not ok…
Sounds to me like you need to take a step. Take one and make an appointment to simply speak to a priest.

 

[Veritas6]

For me, when I fantasize about women, they are not just pieces of flesh, or impersonal. Instead, at least in the past, I came up with elaborate fantasies that take into account their faces and personalities. And that’s where the obsessive element comes in. Maybe if it was impersonal and women were just body parts, I wouldn’t be so interested or so invested.

It seems even if you envision a woman as only flesh you are still invested in her, most likely you may desire to be with her. The problem seems to be you sexualize many things about a woman, which can be difficult to deal with. A beautiful face and personality can be the hardest things to ignore.

My suggestion would be to acknowledge you have these fantasies, but do not feed the urges. One can live without engaging in temptation, and I know you can beat this. I read you are seeing a therapist, which is awesome, but thank you for opening up and being vulnerable. I’ll keep praying for you, God bless.

 

[RepetantCatholic]

God bless, remember where misogynists and incel go wrong is they have no religious backing. So, they buy into Social Darwinism instead of acknowledging the human soul. Once you have bad beliefs like superiority and inferiority rather than Christian beliefs in equality and love you neighbor, malicious people will prey and exploit you.

Always maintain religious backing. Trust me this is just a phase, work through it through therapy but it can be remedied. Looking back once you are in a better spot, you will see that all you were thinking was wrong and the truth is more beautiful.