Thoughts on the reality of evil

[Maureen44]

I’ve been wondering about this and I hope to get some insightful answers here.

I know that is it a teaching that God did NOT create evil but that evil is the absence of good. I think I understand this but whenever I try to defend it to someone who says that God created evil, I get all tied up. Can anyone help me out here? Thank you.

 

[kparlet]

God did not create evil, but he did bestow upon His creatures (angels and humans) the gift of free will. It is the bad choices that His creatures have made that have created evil.

 

[ncgolf]

It is good to remember that evil is not a thing but rather the consequence of a bad choice. Those consequences eventually manifest themselves through physical ailments and eventually death but worse than the physical death would be the eternal suffering of Hell. The title of your thread offers an insight … though evil is not a tangible thing … it is real.

I have understood Hell as evil eternalized.

Like the previous poster one needs free will for evil to exist … if we did not sin then evil could not be produced.

It is difficult to discuss evil if the people you are discussing this with do not believe in sin. The 2 are releated.

I wonder what people think about evil if they do not believe in sin?

 

[Maureen44]

It is good to remember that evil is not a thing but rather the consequence of a bad choice.

I wonder what people think about evil if they do not believe in sin?

Good point, thank you.

I don’t know. They probably just consider “sins” to be wrongdoing with no mark on the soul. I don’t know if they believe that people have souls. The person that I am mostly thinking about is an agnostic. They maintain that they don’t know if there is a God but that if there is, he is incompetant. Obviously, I have a problem discussing things with this person on a multitude of levels.

 

[Valke2]

I’m not answering from a Catholic perspective. But it seems pretty clear that God did in fact create evil. If we are to believe that God is one. ANd that nothing exists outside of God, then evil must have been created by God. Unless you believe there is a power that is independent and outside of God.

Deuteronomy 30:15 states,

See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil.

Isaiah 45:7:
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I the Lord do all these things.

Those two quotes come from the KJV.

Jews see clearly that it is a fundamental biblical teaching that God created a balance of good and evil in the world for each of us to deal with.

I don’t know how Christians deal with this if they don’t believe that God created Satan.

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

I’m not answering from a Catholic perspective. But it seems pretty clear that God did in fact create evil. If we are to believe that God is one. ANd that nothing exists outside of God, then evil must have been created by God. Unless you believe there is a power that is independent and outside of God.

Deuteronomy 30:15 states,

See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil.
Isaiah 45:7:
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I the Lord do all these things.

Hebrew “ra”, or “bad [things]”

God can send hurricanes to punish a city for its sins. This isn’t necessarily an evil.

 

[ncgolf]

Good point, thank you.

I don’t know. They probably just consider “sins” to be wrongdoing with no mark on the soul. I don’t know if they believe that people have souls. The person that I am mostly thinking about is an agnostic. They maintain that they don’t know if there is a God but that if there is, he is incompetant. Obviously, I have a problem discussing things with this person on a multitude of levels.

Acquinas in his book, “Summa Theologica” tried to answer many questions on God, Church, Angels etc. He always tried to come up with 3 for and against arguments. When writing about the existance of God he could only come up with 2 good arguments against there being a God. 1) Couldn’t be proved through the sciences and 2) problem of evil … being how could a wise, all knowing, omnipotent God do such a horrible job with our world. Like your friends argument … God must be incompotent.

Your friends argument is not new and is a serious one.

I am a C. S. Lewis fan so I will recommend his book, “The Problem of Pain”. You must read this book to gather new understandings into evil, pain and suffering. You will not be disappointed.

 

[ricmat]

Jews see clearly that it is a fundamental biblical teaching that God created a balance of good and evil in the world for each of us to deal with.

I don’t know how Christians deal with this if they don’t believe that God created Satan.

The “balance” argument was (and still is) popular amongst gnostics. I wasn’t aware that it was a Jewish teaching as well.

Most christians believe that other than man, the angels are the only other creatures which have free will.

Does the concept of free will exist in Judaism (perhaps it is a christian invention?) It would seem that without free will, that everytime a murderer shoots a victim that it’s actually God pulling the trigger.

 

[Valke2]

The “balance” argument was (and still is) popular amongst gnostics. I wasn’t aware that it was a Jewish teaching as well.

Most christians believe that other than man, the angels are the only other creatures which have free will.

Does the concept of free will exist in Judaism (perhaps it is a christian invention?) It would seem that without free will, that everytime a murderer shoots a victim that it’s actually God pulling the trigger.

The concept of free will has its place in judaism. When I was referring to balance, I meant that God brought enough evil and good into existence so that we are free to choose one or the other.

 

[Valke2]

Hebrew “ra”, or “bad [things]”

God can send hurricanes to punish a city for its sins. This isn’t necessarily an evil.

If you look at Deuteronomy 30:15 thorugh 30:18, it is clear that the evil that God “set before” us, is not just a “bad thing” such as a hurricane. 30:17 and 18 talk about what befalls us if we choose to do evil instead of good.

15 Behold, I have set before you today life and good, and death and evil,
16 inasmuch as I command you this day to love the Lord, your God, to walk in His ways, and to observe His commandments, His statutes, and His ordinances, so that you will live and increase, and the Lord, your God, will bless you in the land to which you are coming to take possession of it.
17 But if your heart deviates and you do not listen, and you will be drawn astray, and you will prostrate yourself to other deities and serve them,
18 I declare to you this day, that you will surely perish, and that you will not live long days on the land, to which you are crossing the Jordan, to come and take possession thereof.