Three Heavens

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I have a Christian friend (used loosely) that thinks that the Bible is very clear that there is three Heavens. I have tried to look for some information that would explain what the real Bible verses are talking about but it is such a goofy idea that I have not been able to find any information on it.

He quotes:

2 Corinthians**
Chapter 12**

1 I must boast; not that it is profitable, but I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord.

2 I know someone in Christ who, fourteen years ago (whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows), was caught up to the third heaven.

So if anyone has some quotes of the true meaning of this or any other verses that seem to talk about more than one heaven it would be greatly appreciated.
 
The explanation I’ve always heard about that (and it makes sense to me) is that the first heaven is the atmospheric sky, the second heaven is the “outer space” sky, and the third heaven is God’s Heaven. Since the first two are actually part of the created universe, and since God cannot logically be part of His own creation, then His Heaven must also be outside this space-time continuum.

DaveBj
 
Scripture also states that God parted the sea with a blast of his nostrils, but being spirit, God HAS no nostrils.

These are called “anthropomorphisms” - a way of describing the spiritual to human beings so we can relate. Many wacky beliefs have taken root because people couldn’t discern the literal from the figurative.
Hope this helps!

  • Tempis Fugit Momento Mori
 
Explanation from the New American Bible:

[1-4] In the body or out of the body: he seemed no longer confined to bodily conditions, but he does not claim to understand the mechanics of the experience. Caught up: i.e., in ecstasy. The third heaven . . . Paradise: ancient cosmologies depicted a multitiered universe. Jewish intertestamental literature contains much speculation about the number of heavens. Seven is the number usually mentioned, but the Testament of Levi (2:7-10; 3:1-4) speaks of three; God himself dwelt in the third of these. Without giving us any clear picture of the cosmos, Paul indicates a mental journey to a nonearthly space, set apart by God, in which secrets were revealed to him. Ineffable things: i.e., privileged knowledge, which it was not possible or permitted to divulge. Sounds like God’s anteroom where he meets earthly people. 🙂
 
Enid

I have a Christian friend (used loosely) that thinks that the Bible is very clear that there is three Heavens.

Ever hear someone say, “I was in seventh heaven”? (… Jewish intertestamental literature contains much speculation about the number of heavens. Seven is the number usually mentioned …)

Paul mentions being raised to the third heaven. Perhaps Paul thought that there were heavens above the third heaven. Perhaps not.

Paul says that there is a choir of fallen angels that dwell in the heavenly places – he certainly doesn’t mean that demons are infesting the heaven where Jesus sits on his throne as Christ the King.

For we are not contending against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Eph. 6:12
 
The Barrister:
Sounds like God’s anteroom where he meets earthly people. 🙂
Perhaps Enoch and Elijah are in the anteroom waiting to return to earth as the two witnesses in the Book of Revelation … 😉
 
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Enid:
I have a Christian friend (used loosely) that thinks that the Bible is very clear that there is three Heavens. I have tried to look for some information that would explain what the real Bible verses are talking about but it is such a goofy idea that I have not been able to find any information on it.
Paul simply states that the person was caught up to the third heaven. He was not attempting to define the number of heavens. It does not say “there are only three heavens.” Your friend is placing a limit when Scripture is not intending one. All we can say is that there are at least for sure three “heavens.” The Scriptures do state that there are multiple levels but do not give us an exact number (“heaven of heavens”: Deuteronomy 10:14; Nehemiah 9:6; “highest heaven”: 2 Chronicles 2:6; “above all the heavens”: Ephesians 4:10; there are “many dwelling places” in God’s house: John 14:2).
 
I’ve been given a booklet by a friend who asked me to for my opinion. It is titled, Confronting the Queen of Heaven by Peter Wagner, and published 1998 by Wagner Institute. The author was a professor of church growth since 1971 at the Fuller Theological Seminary. Also, he has authored 40 books, and is active with the World Prayer Center in Colorado Springs.

Although he describes a demonic queen of heaven in Ephesis, Turkey, and cites Old Testament references, and in the New Testament. His pretext tries to explain away Jesus Mother Mary as being possessed by the demon of Diana, since he stated that the real Mother went to Ephesis with her appointed son the apostle John. As Diana was defeated and her temple in ruin, my idea in defence of our blessed Saint Mary, is that the heaven Diana was in is the first heaven, while St. Mary was taken up to the third, where Jesus is.

Certainly the good doctor Wagner, because of his involvement with prayer warrior circles, has to express his scholarly opinion by stretching the scripture without knowledge or understanding of Catholic theology…doesn’t his battling and defeating demons to such extreme, affect his professional opinion about our wonderful Mother?**
 
I have a Christian friend (used loosely) that thinks that the Bible is very clear that there is three Heavens. I have tried to look for some information that would explain what the real Bible verses are talking about but it is such a goofy idea that I have not been able to find any information on it.

He quotes:

2 Corinthians**
Chapter 12**

1 I must boast; not that it is profitable, but I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord.

2 I know someone in Christ who, fourteen years ago (whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows), was caught up to the third heaven.

So if anyone has some quotes of the true meaning of this or any other verses that seem to talk about more than one heaven it would be greatly appreciated.
Hi, Enid!

…I’ve heard this before… and some answers are quite contrived… yet, if we pay attention to Scriptures we may find the answers right from Genesis:
1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
God Reveals that He Created the Heavens (more than one level/understanding of the term: Heaven).
1:8 God called the vault ‘heaven’. Evening came and morning came: the second day.
…here we have a division of H20–that which is found on earth (water masses and vapor, etc.) and within earth’s atmosphere (the clouds, man, look at the clouds–sorry couldn’t help it, a childhood flashback! :D). So God called this body of water (clouds) Heaven.

From human perspective that is the first Heaven–interestingly enough, in Spanish we refer to it as “cielo” (Heaven)–that zone where the clouds exist.
1:14 God said, ‘Let there be lights in the vault of heaven to divide day from night, and let them indicate festivals, days and years. 1:15 Let them be lights in the vault of heaven to shine on the earth.’ And so it was. 1:16 God made the two great lights: the greater light to govern the day, the smaller light to govern the night, and the stars. 1:17 God set them in the vault of heaven to shine on the earth,
…now we have God redefining the “vault of Heaven” as the area where He places the sun, moon, and other astronomical bodies; it is the second Heaven.
9 Yes, the heavens are as high above earth as my ways are above your ways, my thoughts above your thoughts.
(Isaiah 55:9)

7 And now war broke out in heaven, when Michael with his angels attacked the dragon. The dragon fought back with his angels, 8 but they were defeated and driven out of heaven. (Apocalypse [Revelation] 12:7-8)
…then we have Heaven as a place where God and the angels dwell. This would be the third Heaven in St. Paul’s and St. John’s visions.

Coincidentally, Apocalypse 12 does note all three Heavens (v3, sky/first Heaven; v2, Heaven where astronomical bodies exist; vv7-8, Heaven where God Dwells).

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Ver. 4. Caught up into paradise. St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas are of opinion that this third heaven and paradise are the same place, and designate the abode of the blessed. In order to understand the language of the apostle, we must observe that the Hebrews distinguished three different heavens. The first comprised the air, the clouds, &c. as far as the fixed stars. The second included all the fixed stars; and the third was the abode of Angels, in which God himself discovered his infinite glory, &c. The first is called in Scripture simply the heavens, the second the firmament, and the third the heaven of heavens. (Calmet)
 
Great quote from forum master “Nelka” and prayer warrior, I have used this (name removed by moderator)ut to evaluate a book hoping to be helpful and encourage friend. (never thot to search church fathers) Thanks.
 
The explanation I’ve always heard about that (and it makes sense to me) is that the first heaven is the atmospheric sky, the second heaven is the “outer space” sky, and the third heaven is God’s Heaven. Since the first two are actually part of the created universe, and since God cannot logically be part of His own creation, then His Heaven must also be outside this space-time continuum.

DaveBj
I agree with this. It’s a reference to popular cosmology, and the intent was to be clear that Jesus wasn’t just in the sky or in the realm beyond that, but that He is where the Father is.
 
Thanks Westrock; your point is well taken about our eternal Creator’s place is outside his creation which exists in perpetual time and space. You make me think how eternity gives time and space it’s context: But time and space came not by the fall of man but by creation and the seven days…what we can expect when Christ returns in glory, a new heaven will come with him. And the old heaven and earth will be done away. (Rev 21:1)
 
This was a 13 year dormant thread. It should not have been resurrected.
 
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