Time of Matins

[JReducation]

The two Benedictine communities I am familiar with (Saint-Benoît-du-Lac in Canada, the abbey I am affiliated with, and St-Wandrille in France, the abbey that founded us in 1912) do it at 5 am now, it’s the Cistercians (locally) who have kept it earlier (4 am) and the Carthusians too of course still do it in the middle of the night (nearest Carthusians to me are in Vermont; check out the film “Into Great Silence” about the Carthusians, it is great). The nearest community of Benedictine women (nuns, not sisters) do it anticipated after Compline, but they still use the old Benedictine schema (250+ psalms per week and they still do Prime!)

I was thinking about the Carthusians when I mentioned going to bed at 8:00. As far as I know, they only do that in winter, which makes sense. It’s dark by 5:00.

We pray it at 5:00 in the summer and at 6:30 in winter. The reason is a practical one. You get up earlier to take advantage of the cool morning to work and pray. In the winter it’s more practical to get up later, because it does not get warm until after sunrise.

But it’s really beautiful, because as we follow the natural cycle of the seasons and the sun, we preserve the ancient practice. That’s how the Divine Office began. It goes back to Judaism. They followed the natural cycle of the sun.

Our nuns, not the sisters, still get up in the middle of the night and go back to bed.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Batfink]

Some communities also change their schedule in the summer, because it’s impossible to sleep at 8. It’s still daytime. Instead you try to be in chapel by 5:00 am. You go to bed later and sleep through the night.

Tell me about it! Try getting a baby to go to sleep by 8! And no, she doesn’t sleep through the night. So I pray the hours when I get a chance - if she wakes me up early, I say the Office of Readings at 4.30, like this morning, if not then I pray it later with Morning Prayer. I think that’s the most important thing - pray when you have the time to pray properly, reverently and without interruption. By all means make extra efforts to make time for the Office, I’m not suggesting just squeeze it in around your schedule, but do what works for you!

 

[JReducation]

Tell me about it! Try getting a baby to go to sleep by 8! And no, she doesn’t sleep through the night. So I pray the hours when I get a chance - if she wakes me up early, I say the Office of Readings at 4.30, like this morning, if not then I pray it later with Morning Prayer. I think that’s the most important thing - pray when you have the time to pray properly, reverently and without interruption. By all means make extra efforts to make time for the Office, I’m not suggesting just squeeze it in around your schedule, but do what works for you!

You may want to try St. Francis’ method of praying the Divine Office. He rarely prayed it in a chapel. He would usually walk while he recited it. His walking allowed him to focus. Of course that meant that the brothers with him had to walk along so they could pray it as a fraternity. If you don’t live in a fraternity, you don’t have to drag a few other people along with you. If you’re walking, you don’t fall asleep while praying.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Batfink]

I do all three. When I can, I join with the Dominican friars in church. Otherwise, I pray in Chapel alone (I’m lucky enough to be a school Chaplain so I have a Chapel with the Blessed Sacrament reserved right opposite my office). If I can’t do either of those, I pray it as I walk, which can be really good for contemplation - especially if it’s something like the Canticle from Daniel and you’re looking at creation as you say it. Horses for courses. I hadn’t realised our Holy Father Francis prayed this way (although it’s obvious when you think of it), thank you for enlightening me!

 

[MiserereMeiDeus]

I’ll bet you $5.00 that they no longer get up in the middle of the night and go back to bed

Haha that is a bet you would win. They pray Lauds around 6 - 6:30, depending on the season, then Mass. They no longer pray Matins anymore, and I’m not quite sure when they pray the Office of Readings. I think they do it privately.

Given that most Benedictine monks are working all day, it’s probably the case that community time is in the evening.

That is for sure, they run both a college and a seminary. I know they pray Vespers at 5:00pm.

He would usually walk while he recited it. His walking allowed him to focus.

I have done this before and have enjoyed it. I was surprise, but I really was able to focus while walking and praying.

 

[AJV]

Hello everyone! I was curious about when Matins were traditionally prayed. Was it split up throughout the night, or was it prayed before Lauds?

It was common among secular priests and those engaged in apostolic work to have an indult that permitted anticipation of Matins. The timing of the indult usually specified how far in advance Matins could be anticipated, but the earliest possible time was 2 p.m. on the previous day.

 

[JReducation]

It was common among secular priests and those engaged in apostolic work to have an indult that permitted anticipation of Matins. The timing of the indult usually specified how far in advance Matins could be anticipated, but the earliest possible time was 2 p.m. on the previous day.

That indult no longer exists. Everyone is directed to follow the instructions in the breviary.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[OraLabora]

But it’s really beautiful, because as we follow the natural cycle of the seasons and the sun, we preserve the ancient practice. That’s how the Divine Office began. It goes back to Judaism. They followed the natural cycle of the sun.

That’s the way it was written in the Rule of St. Benedict as well, the time of Matins was adjusted to the season.

The abbey I’m affiliated with in addition to the mother abbey that founded it, are cloistered; they don’t have any outside missions, apart from sending a monk to two local monasteries of nuns as chaplains (one in Vermont, the other outside Montreal). Our abbey lives off a cheese factory, a cider factory, an apple orchard and a gift shop. St. Wandrille in France does art restoration, and has a gift shop. In our abbey one of the biggest sources of income is the government pensions for the monks over 65!!!

The Benedictines near Vancouver though, run a college, and I believe they have a lighter office. Ours uses Schema B (the Notker Fueglister schema, from the mid-60s), which is the entire psalter in a week; they pray Matins (05h00), Lauds (07h30), Tierce (09h45), Sexte+None (12h10 or 15h45 on feast days), Vespers (17h00) and Compline (7h45). The conventual Mass is at 11 am and lights-out is at 21h00 (9 pm); the monks observe total silence (except for the Offices) from Compline until Tierce.

Side note, at Tierce on Sundays they maintain the Benedictine tradition of a brief ritual of thanksgiving for the monks who are leaving refectory duty, of prayer for those about to start, and of prayer for the one who is designated as lector in the refectory for the week.

 

[JReducation]

That’s the way it was written in the Rule of St. Benedict as well, the time of Matins was adjusted to the season.

The abbey I’m affiliated with in addition to the mother abbey that founded it, are cloistered; they don’t have any outside missions, apart from sending a monk to two local monasteries of nuns as chaplains (one in Vermont, the other outside Montreal). Our abbey lives off a cheese factory, a cider factory, an apple orchard and a gift shop. St. Wandrille in France does art restoration, and has a gift shop. In our abbey one of the biggest sources of income is the government pensions for the monks over 65!!!

The Benedictines near Vancouver though, run a college, and I believe they have a lighter office. Ours uses Schema B (the Notker Fueglister schema, from the mid-60s), which is the entire psalter in a week; they pray Matins (05h00), Lauds (07h30), Tierce (09h45), Sexte+None (12h10 or 15h45 on feast days), Vespers (17h00) and Compline (7h45). The conventual Mass is at 11 am and lights-out is at 21h00 (9 pm); the monks observe total silence (except for the Offices) from Compline until Tierce.

Side note, at Tierce on Sundays they maintain the Benedictine tradition of a brief ritual of thanksgiving for the monks who are leaving refectory duty, of prayer for those about to start, and of prayer for the one who is designated as lector in the refectory for the week.

Francis was very influenced by the Benedictines in Umbria. They were very kind to him. They gave the order our first two houses.

It was interesting, because he was influenced by them in both directions. There were things that he borrowed from them, such as the Liturgy of the Hours and there were other things that he said he had learned not to do from the Benedictines. One of them was not to have a choir, never to use Gregorian Chant and never to have choir monks.

It was not that the Bennies told him not to do those things. It was that he observed how it structured their lives and felt that it would confine his brothers and the lay faithful, if he incorporated those elements. He deliberately opposed introducing them.

I always have to chuckle when I hear all the debates on TC Forum for Gregorian Chant, remembering all the debates that St. Francis had with the early friars opposing Gregorian Chant and opposing the establishment of a choir and a schola. He even opposed the institution of a habit, because he said that it was too monastic and Christ wanted his followers to be free. He fought to keep structure to a minimum. He won out, his rule focuses on theology more than disciplines. He says very little about the Liturgy of the Hours only that it is to be recited.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[OraLabora]

Francis was very influenced by the Benedictines in Umbria. They were very kind to him. They gave the order our first two houses.

There is an ancient fresco of St. Francis at Subiaco, I believe it is one of the few, if not the only, representation of St. Francis without the stigmata.

For those not in the know, Subiaco is where St. Benedict first lived as a hermit. It is still an active Benedictine community.

 

[JReducation]

There is an ancient fresco of St. Francis at Subiaco, I believe it is one of the few, if not the only, representation of St. Francis without the stigmata.

For those not in the know, Subiaco is where St. Benedict first lived as a hermit. It is still an active Benedictine community.

First, about the stigmata, that happened in 1224 and Francis died in 1226. He did not have it all of his life.

Second, he loved Subiaco. The early brothers mention the monks of Subiaco, often. It was the monks of Subiaco that gave us Mt. Laverna. Francis, not wanting to own it, bargained with the Abbot to rent it for a basket of fish once a year. Every year, on the anniversary the friars deliver a basket of fish to the monks at Subiaco. This has been going on for 800 years.

It was from the monks at Subiaco that Francis learned not to use Gregorian chant, choirs, scholas, chapter halls, cloisters, habits, and to reduce the number of liturgical books to one. He always felt very grateful to them, because they had taught him the religious life. He needed their (name removed by moderator)ut on how to live the religious life. They were also very supportive of his vision of freedom from traditional liturgical and religious life. The abbot of the time was a visionary.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[OraLabora]

First, about the stigmata, that happened in 1224 and Francis died in 1226. He did not have it all of his life.

Second, he loved Subiaco. The early brothers mention the monks of Subiaco, often. It was the monks of Subiaco that gave us Mt. Laverna. Francis, not wanting to own it, bargained with the Abbot to rent it for a basket of fish once a year. Every year, on the anniversary the friars deliver a basket of fish to the monks at Subiaco. This has been going on for 800 years.

It was from the monks at Subiaco that Francis learned not to use Gregorian chant, choirs, scholas, chapter halls, cloisters, habits, and to reduce the number of liturgical books to one. He always felt very grateful to them, because they had taught him the religious life. He needed their (name removed by moderator)ut on how to live the religious life. They were also very supportive of his vision of freedom from traditional liturgical and religious life. The abbot of the time was a visionary.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

This is what I love about the Catholic Church. It allows for many charisms to coexist under the same big tent. No need to split off and go found another denomination, we have it all

 

[JReducation]

This is what I love about the Catholic Church. It allows for many charisms to coexist under the same big tent. No need to split off and go found another denomination, we have it all

I just wish that we Catholics could be as flexible as these men were. They realized that uniformity was not the ideal. Dominic borrowed from the Augustinians and deviated from them too. Francis borrowed from the Benedictines and deviated from them. John de Matha borrowed from Francis and Dominic, but deviated as well. Then the Carmelites arrive in Europe and they get into a battle with Aquinas and finally win out. Aquinas is happy for them, not upset because he lost.

These guys did not just have differences in their habits and their rules. They had differences on very essential things: the priesthood, the mass, the life of prayer, penance, the role of women, ecumenism, moral theology. They accepted these differences as legitimate, as long as it was not contrary to revealed truth they had no problems with the differences. Just the opposite, they had great admiration for each other. I wish that we could be the same.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[AJV]

That indult no longer exists. Everyone is directed to follow the instructions in the breviary.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Indeed, I was responding to the OP’s query on what was traditional practice.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

In the Byzantine tradition, Matins (Orthros) is traditionally prayed at 5:00 am with the First Hour. The Midnight Office of Nocturns can be done at Midnight but some monasteries do them in the morning together with Matins and the First Hour and so aggregate the three Hours. At noon, the Hours of Terce, Sext and Typika (“Dry Mass” if there is no Liturgy that day) are aggregated as well. Then the 9th Hour, Vespers and Compline together around six or so.

In other monasteries Matins and Vespers are done together at 4:30 pm (i.e. of the next day) while the Midnight Hour is done at six in the morning.

The formal Byzantine offices of morning and evening prayer are often included as part of Nocturns and Compline respectively.

The nice thing I like about the Byzantine Rite is that devotional services of Canons and Akathists to the Saints of the Day, Week etc. can be included in the service of Compline.

This developed, in Russia, into the “All Night Akathist Service” where monastics would continue reading the many Akathists (like the Western litany only much longer) until morning.

St Jonah Atamansky, a Ukrainian Orthodox (married) priest in Odessa would pray all night services EVERY night and was known for curing blindness by means of his prolonged prayer, as well as banishing demons from the possessed.

In the Coptic Rite, they have set forms of Hourly prayer that never change, seven times a day (agpeya.org).

Ideally, the Copts will go to bed early so they can get up for their Midnight Hour, which has three parts to reflect the three times our Lord prayed in the garden before His Passion.

If Copts do not say this seven-fold daily Office, they are to confess this in confession prior to Communion - how is that for dedication?

Alex

 

[Ryan_Ellis]

Indeed, I was responding to the OP’s query on what was traditional practice.

I don’t believe this is correct. For those praying the extraordinary form of the Divine Office, the liturgical books of the Roman Rite in place in 1962 are the governing authority under Summorum Pontificum and Universae Ecclesiae. The 1961 rubrics allowed for anticipated Matins (but not Lauds) after Vespers of the previous day. Vespers had to be said after the sun had begun its descent in the sky (2PM in the Winter, 4PM in the Summer, 3PM in the Spring and Fall).

The day must begin with Lauds (or a conjoined Matins-Lauds), and end with Compline.

So, a typical secular priest’s day likely was: Lauds, Prime, Terce, Sext, None, Vespers, Anticipatory Matins, Compline.

A typical religious’ day likely was: Matins, Lauds, Prime, Terce, Sext, None, Vespers, Compline.

 

[Mark1970]

Hello everyone! I was curious about when Matins were traditionally prayed. Was it split up throughout the night, or was it prayed before Lauds?

Just to clarify your question, are you asking about those feasts where Matins is composed of 3 Nocturns? Or just about whether Matins is joined to Lauds? Some feasts have a Matins consisting of 3 Nocturns, with each Nocturn having 3 Psalms, the Lord’s Prayer, an Absolution, and three readings - each reading preceded by a Blessing and followed by a Responsory. My understanding is that on these feasts, the three Nocturs were recited “all in one go”, one immediately following the other, rather than being split up through the night. Other days just had one Nocturn of 9 psalms, Lord’s Prayer, Absolution then the 3 readings with their blessing and responsory.