Tired of the blowing off of traditions (with an undercase "t")

[workinprogress]

It’s said, well that does not need to be believed because it is not a teaching which must be believed or that it was for a problem of another time. Oh yeah? Do you not see old heresies popping up? Why not ask why the heresies popped up and why certain restrictions were put on actions and why certain disciplines were imposed. We have seen what has happened with the removal of unessential practices and the decreasing of necessary ones. It’s like if the trashman didn’t come. Would many take the trash to the town trash heap if not made to do so? These practices, though some being unncessary keep our guard up. Do we who blow these off, really talk and pray to God as much or do other penances equal in efficiency to those devotions? I think the motive that drives the decrease of devotions is the same one driven by Satan’s demons.

After all, do not ultra-traditionalists say that, if a higher clergy says something not technically binding or punish one with something not technically binding (as may be the case with Fr. Gruner and those groups he associates with) that we can blow it off. They would say there is nothing binding in Vatican 2 and thus, nothing of it need be heeded (definitely nothing binding from any pope during and after Vatican 2). You don’t like it, do you? Well, the uncensored radicals teaching trash to their students blow Vatican 2 and anything afterwards off also. Would some of you listen to them because they are at least, not censured?

 

[Mandi]

I’m sorry I don’t understand what you are trying to say, are you mad at the sede vacantist for teaching against the pope?

 

[workinprogress]

Some will say that they don’t think ember days, altar rails, etc. are important because they feel Vatican 2 brought us into a new age when Vatican 2 did not change any of that. Because we ride off those things as devotions of a bygone era or because they combatted a now-extinct problem, we get the spiritual problems that they did combat and we don’t get the spiritual benefits those time honored traditions did bring generations before Vatican 2.
I was also saying that, while ultratraditionalists blow off those documents and orders/punishments (of certain groups or individuals) from the Vatican about this and that that they are not binding on the faithful but are just pastoral (which I think undermines the authority of those officials’ offices unless those documents go against the magesterium, in which case higher authority should be petitioned through proper channels and not media); many far left groups, on the other hand, blow off fundamental Church teaching itself as do those ultratraditionalists that forget about obedience to Rome as being essential to being Catholic and those ultratraditionalists that vow obedience but slander the clergy and probably thusly undermines their authority in unforseen ways. I think EWTN handles both groups well, but I think even they omit some things that the faithful should know or you won’t hear it unless you watch every show they broadcast (things like interfaith worship, unless Protestants are participating in everything but the Eucharist at a Catholic mass, being unlawful ).

 

[otm]

So are you saying that Protestants can’t come to Mass?

 

[csr]

The exchange, above, is a bit strange, but one point I recommend is to read old books, such as missals or books of piety following the traditional Kalendar. The readings were stable for centuries, and the explanations surrounding them, in those books, are extremely informative. Of course–we must not “blow off” traditions, as they were not random by any means. Traditions received from our forebears are akin to laws and must not be changed without evident benefit.

 

[asquared]

I am afraid I do not understand the gist and direction of either the original question or the longer replies. I would remind people who either decry or uphold small-t traditions in the name of orthodox religion that a lot of what we remember or consider to be religious traditions are actually cultural or ethnic in origin, and are not necessary to full, faithful Catholic belief and practice.

 

[csr]

Particularly informative books that are easy to obtain are The Saint Andrew Daily Missal and The Liturgical Year (by Dom Gueranger), both available through St. Bonaventure Publications.

 

[workinprogress]

We all know many traditions were blown off after Vatican 2 unnecessarily. Instead, “reformers” wanted to go antiquarian (reviving ancient traditions already evolved from thereby devolving Catholic worship, art and music–some traditions, we were not meant to keep around) by stripping the Church much in the way of Henry VIII and other schismatic breakaway groups. As Fr. Peter Stravinskas (sp?) on EWTN said to Fr. Pacwa on EWTN Live, there also used to be very occasional confessions and they were also, for a time, public. Should we go there? No. Maybe, this attempt to go back to early forms of worship is more deconstructionist than pastoral (read “Ugly as Sin” and “Goodbye, Good Men” for a good sign of that being true).
The traditionalists loyal to Rome do not attempt to do this. The changes since Vatican 2 could not have been organic in that they paralleled changes in art and music (to name a couple) in Western culture by liberals. These changes were also a large departure from the desires of the Vatican 2 Fathers so far as we can tell (though the conspiracy about the Rhine Fathers, Protestants and Freemasons having an influence on Vatican 2 may not be entirely made up, though possibly a one-sided account). Were changing the altar around, making round and origami shaped church buildings and removing altar rails prescribed by Vatican 2? Therefore, they really are not going back to antiquated traditions. Those traditionalists who attack clergy verbally with half-truths, unproven proofs and lies as well as sedevacantists and schismatics are, however, breaking from Traditions, such as obedience and the sacrilege of defaming or physical violence against clergy.

BTW. I said Protestants cannot receive the Eucharist without special permission from a bishop or something–it’s in most missals. In a Catholic mass, the worshipping of non-Catholics and Catholics together is fine (non-Catholics and Catholics aware of intentional mortal sin on their souls just don’t get communion).