Title Catholicos

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Hey Ya’ll,

Do any of the Oriental Catholic Bishops use the term “Catholicos”?
 
Little_Boy_Lost said:
Hey Ya’ll,

Do any of the Oriental Catholic Bishops use the term “Catholicos”?
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yes… the major archbishop of either the syro-malabar or syro-malanka have used the title.
Several patriarchs use “Catholicos-Patriarch”
 
I believe that, among the OCs, only the Chaldeans and the Armenians use the title officially, both in hypenated form (Catholicos-Patriarch). If the Syro-Malabars and/or Syro-Malankara use it, (I’ve never seen it), it’s done unofficially.

AFAIK, among the OO, the Armenians maintain the title on its own for Cilicia, and in the hypenated form (Catholicos-Patriarch) for Etchmadzin. At least one of the two SOC divisions in India uses the title as well. Although not technically OO, so too does the ACoE (both of them), again, I believe, in its hyphenated form. To my knowledge, the Alexandrenes do not use it, although the position of Ethiopian “Patriarch” is arguably the equivalent to that of Catholicos.
 
malphono said:
I’m sure the Chaldeans and Armenians appreciate that they are considered “minor” :rolleyes: …
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Minor are those not of the five Patriarchates. GC shows the eastern Catholic Patriarchal Churches today, and they historically used title of catholicos, there were many at one time in different areas.

Western patriarchates have only been titles conveying no jurisdiction, differing from the eastern, which have jurisdiction.
 
What seniority/authority do Catholicos have vs. Patriarchs?
 
Little_Boy_Lost said:
What seniority/authority do Catholicos have vs. Patriarchs?
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The Catholicos-Patriarchs of Armenian and Chaldean churches and are canonically patriarchs.

The Syro-Malankara append it to Major Archbishop and/or use it in place of it:
syromalankara.org/tag/major-archbishop-cyril-mar-baselios-catholicos/
syromalankara.org/2007/02/10/catholicos-bawa-cleemis-baselios-major-archbishop-designate/

It is occasionally also used by the Syro-Malabar, but is not yet customary, for their Major Archbishop as well.

tititudorancea.com/z/catholicos.htm

it is used in a manner not too disimilar to the UGCC Major Archbishop being called Patriarch… but with less confusion and ambition.
 
The Catholicos is “more” than a Patriarch in that he has jurisdiction over his flock world-wide i.e. outside the boundaries of the “patria.”

One of our UGCC priests and professors, the Rev. Dr. P. Bilaniuk (+memory eternal!) once wrote an article suggesting what the UGCC really needs is a Catholicos-Patriarch to ensure his jurisdiction world-wide over his UGCC members.

Our Patriarch and his Synod already exercise such jurisdiction and then informs Rome of their decisions.

But “Catholicos” is really something that is an Oriental Orthodox/Catholic thing.

Alex
 
Alexander_Roman said:
The Catholicos is “more” than a Patriarch in that he has jurisdiction over his flock world-wide i.e. outside the boundaries of the “patria.”

One of our UGCC priests and professors, the Rev. Dr. P. Bilaniuk (+memory eternal!) once wrote an article suggesting what the UGCC really needs is a Catholicos-Patriarch to ensure his jurisdiction world-wide over his UGCC members.

Our Patriarch and his Synod already exercise such jurisdiction and then informs Rome of their decisions.

But “Catholicos” is really something that is an Oriental Orthodox/Catholic thing.

Alex
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You mean because the bishops outside of the Patriarchal territory exercise their jurisdiction in accord with the decisions of the patriarch?
 
Hopefully, our bishops do that. But there is no law saying they must.

With a Catholicos-Patriarch, they would be directly under him and answerable to him.

I do support a Catholicosate for the UGCC.

Alex
 
Alexander_Roman said:
Hopefully, our bishops do that. But there is no law saying they must.

With a Catholicos-Patriarch, they would be directly under him and answerable to him.

I do support a Catholicosate for the UGCC.

Alex
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The intersting thing is that except for liturgical matters, the bishops outside the Patriarchal territory are not “directly under” the Patriarch (if that means jurisdiciton to you).
 
Dear brother Vico,
Vico said:
The intersting thing is that except for liturgical matters, the bishops outside the Patriarchal territory are not “directly under” the Patriarch (if that means jurisdiciton to you).
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What makes you say that?

I know that St. Mary’s Coptic Catholic Church in L.A. is under the direct omophor of HB Antonios Naguib. If local parishes can be under the direct jurisdiction of a Patriarch outside of that territory, why should not bishops?

Blessings,
Marduk
 
mardukm said:
Dear brother Vico,

What makes you say that?

I know that St. Mary’s Coptic Catholic Church in L.A. is under the direct omophor of HB Antonios Naguib. If local parishes can be under the direct jurisdiction of a Patriarch outside of that territory, why should not bishops?

Blessings,
Marduk
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Why is the Romanian Eparch Botean not directly under the Romanian Church than? I keep hearing he is under the Pope and not the Romanian Metropolitan.
 
mardukm said:
Dear brother Vico,

What makes you say that?

I know that St. Mary’s Coptic Catholic Church in L.A. is under the direct omophor of HB Antonios Naguib. If local parishes can be under the direct jurisdiction of a Patriarch outside of that territory, why should not bishops?

Blessings,
Marduk
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What I am referring to is from the easten canon law. Each non-titular bishop has one eparchy/exarchy/ordnariate jurisdiction.

CCEO Canon 150
  1. Bishops constituted outside the territorial boundaries of the patriarchal Church have all the synodal rights and obligations of the other bishops of the same Church with due regard for can. 102, 2.
  2. Laws enacted by the synod of bishops of the patriarchal Church and promulgated by the patriarch, if they are liturgical, have the force of law everywhere in the world; if, however, they are disciplinary laws or concern other decisions of the synod, they have the force of law inside the territorial boundaries of the patriarchal Church.
  3. Eparchial bishops constituted outside the territorial boundaries of the patriarchal Church, who desire to do so, can attribute the force of law to disciplinary laws and other synodal decisions in their own eparchies, provided they do not exceed their competence; if however these laws or decisions are approved by the Apostolic See, they have the force of law everywhere in the world.
CCEO 102
  1. With regard to eparchial bishops constituted outside the territorial boundaries of the patriarchal Church and titular bishops, particular law can restrict their deliberative vote, with due regard for the canons concerning the election of the patriarch, bishops and candidates for office mentioned in can. 149.
CCEO
P.
Canon 78.2. The power of the patriarch is exercised validly only inside the territorial boundaries of the patriarchal Church unless the nature of the matter or the common or particular law approved by the Roman Pontiff establishes otherwise.
Canon 79 The patriarch represents the patriarchal Church in all its juridic affairs.
Canon 102.2. With regard to eparchial bishops constituted outside the territorial boundaries of the patriarchal Church and titular bishops, particular law can restrict their deliberative vote, with due regard for the canons concerning the election of the patriarch, bishops and candidates for office mentioned in can. 149.
Canon 133.2. The metropolitan represents the province in all juridic matters of the same.
M.A.
Canon 152 What is stated in common law concerning patriarchal Churches or patriarchs is understood to be applicable to major archiepiscopal Churches or major archbishops, unless the common law expressly provides otherwise or it is evident from the nature of the matter.
M.
Canon 157.2. The power of the metropolitan and the council of hierarchs is validly exercised only within the territorial boundaries of the metropolitan Church sui iuris.
Canon 157.3. The metropolitan represents the metropolitan Church sui iuris in all its juridic affairs.
Other
Canon 174 A Church sui iuris, which is neither patriarchal, major archiepiscopal nor metropolitan is entrusted to a hierarch who presides over it according to the norm of common law and particular law established by the Roman Pontiff.
E.
Canon 190 The eparchial bishop represents the eparchy in all its juridic affairs.
 
Dear brother Vico,

I’m not sure what sections of the canons you gave supports your original statement that a bishop of a patriarchal sui juris Church is not under the direct omophor of his Patriarch, even if that bishop is outside the traditional territory of the patriarchate.

At best, I see that a bishop of a patriarchal sui juris Church who is outside the patriarchal territory may have his voting rights restricted by particular law. That is far from saying that such a bishop is not under the direct omophor of his Patriarch.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
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