Titus 3:9...what are foolish arguments, genealogies?

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Titus 3:9
Avoid foolish arguments, genealogies, rivalries, and quarrels about the law, for they are useless and futile.

What would be examples of all these? Haydock commentary skips that verse.
 
MarcoPolo said:
Titus 3:9
*Avoid foolish arguments, genealogies, rivalries, and quarrels about the law, for they are useless and futile.*What would be examples of all these? Haydock commentary skips that verse.
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Would the genealogies be an argument against the caste (?) society, such as India’s today? In these societies, one determines whether one is important or not depending on who your ancestors were.

What is a foolish argument? Why any argument that claims the Catholic Church is not the Church that Christ left us!!! 😉
 
NotWorthy said:
Would the genealogies be an argument against the caste (?) society, such as India’s today? In these societies, one determines whether one is important or not depending on who your ancestors were.

What is a foolish argument? Why any argument that claims the Catholic Church is not the Church that Christ left us!!! 😉
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Toledots(genealogies were and are important to Israelites-Jewish people> Like Genealogies here there is a certain pride in ancestors- it’s also a way to keep track of the family lines and useful in making a marriage agreement. It was Most important to the Levites because those of the priestly class were and are only to be married to someone from the tribe of Levi, I think Titus is saying Jesus being from the tribe of judah and not tribe of Levi didn’t negate his right to be our Great High Priest. God Chooses His High Priest without regard to tribal links. Foolish arguments -heck you can go to any of the forums to see some foolish arguments!! the one about which bible was best got pretty silly. What a foolish argument can do(which would affect the burgeoning Christian community) is create hard feelings and distrust among church members:p
 
juliamajor said:
Toledots(genealogies were and are important to Israelites-Jewish people> Like Genealogies here there is a certain pride in ancestors- it’s also a way to keep track of the family lines and useful in making a marriage agreement. It was Most important to the Levites because those of the priestly class were and are only to be married to someone from the tribe of Levi,
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And this is my point.

In the New Covenant Church, you don’t have to follow blood lines to determine who can marry who, or who can be a priest.

And yes, the Toledot(h) was important in the OT and NT, but only in order to show that Jesus was the promised seed of Genesis 3:15, but more importantly he was a son of David.

Ok, maybe “not only”, but that was the main reason IMO.
 
Interesting replies…and I’m glad NotWorthy that you made the distinction between customary lineage and the important lineage from David to Jesus! That is certainly not foolish info, which is part of why I asked the question to begin with!

2 other questions…
  1. What about quarrels about the law? I assume that this refers to the Mosaic Law as so often is the case throughout Paul’s writing…
  2. And do any of you have a Bible commentart that DOES speak to this passage? I’d be curious to see if perhaps one of the ECFs had something to say about this.
 
Jewish scholars tend to debate the meaing of every little letter, thing in scripture and in Jewish law. Basically, some of those arguments just become silly. The use of geneologies were used to give one authority, like Rabbi so and so is my great grand father and his teaching have been past down in my family.

If you want an idea what I am talking about, google talmud online and read it.

Note: in this context “the law” only refers to the Torah.
 
There were a number of Judaizers in the early congregations,
and the quarrels about geneologies could have been
claims by the Judaizers that the church’s presbyter/priests
should be Jews descended from Levitical bloodlines.
Just my guess.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
 
MarcoPolo said:
Titus 3:9
Avoid foolish arguments, genealogies, rivalries, and quarrels about the law, for they are useless and futile.

What would be examples of all these? Haydock commentary skips that verse.
Click to expand...
Epistle to Titus, after greeting message in 1:1-4, speaks about qualifications for elders (i.e., church leaders, priests, bishops, etc.). They are to be “above reproach” (1:6-16). Then St Paul talks about education and orthodoxy (2:1-15). Finally, St Paul talks about living with people and doing good works (3:1-11). The verse in 3:9 begins with “but” to place it in contrast to what St Paul has been talking about in the previous verses which are “excellent and profitable” (3:8). What are the things that are excellent and profitable?

*Submission, obedience, readiness, truthfulness, peaceableness, gentleness, conscientiousness (3:1-2), God’s grace, by which we were adopted into His family, the Holy Spirit, and eternal life (3:6-7). *

So, verse 9 is going against these excellent and profitable things primarily related to qualification for elders, education, orthodoxy, character, and adoption into God’s family through His mercy. Being too argumentative and disobedient in regards to elders, Sacred Tradition, and making a fuss about ones own heritage (whether biological bloodline, or bishop succession, or lines of saints in various schools of thought like Franciscan vs. Dominican) are not excellent and not profitable. Simple faith, humility, obedience, peaceableness, gentleness, conscientiousness, and thankfulness regarding God’s grace is all we need to live out our faith in charity and good works.

Hope that helps 🙂
 
Perhaps Paul is refering back to his warning to Titus (Titus 1:10-16). Pehaps these trouble makers were promoting the dietary distinctions between clean and unclean foods as well as the non-biblical laws of purity formulated by Pharisaic Judaism.

10
For there are also many rebels, idle talkers and deceivers, especially the Jewish Christians.
11
It is imperative to silence them, as they are upsetting whole families by teaching for sordid gain what they should not.
12
One of them, a prophet of their own, once said, “Cretans have always been liars, vicious beasts, and lazy gluttons.”
13
That testimony is true. Therefore, admonish them sharply, so that they may be sound in the faith,
14
instead of paying attention to Jewish myths and regulations of people who have repudiated the truth.
15
To the clean all things are clean, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is clean; in fact, both their minds and their consciences are tainted.
16
They claim to know God, but by their deeds they deny him. They are vile and disobedient and unqualified for any good deed.
 
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