TLM Communion Question

[mozier]

A quick question: In the Tridentine Latin Mass, may a deacon distribute communion?

 

[laudamus_te]

A quick question: In the Tridentine Latin Mass, may a deacon distribute communion?

In the Tridentine Mass, the only hands which may touch the Sacred Host are those which have been consecrated at ordination. Also, in the Traditional, pre-VII rite, a deacon is not the same as a deacon in the Novus Ordo. Traditionally, a deacon is the last step in the priestly formation before ordination as a priest. Hence, a deacon is always a seminarian. “Deacon” (and "Sub-Deacon) is also a term used for an assistant to the priest during High Mass. So, a priest acting as deacon or subdeacon at High Mass may distribute Communion. The traditional communities (FSSP, etc.) have been permitted to retain the traditional subdiaconate.

 

[AJV]

In the Tridentine Mass, the only hands which may touch the Sacred Host are those which have been consecrated at ordination. Also, in the Traditional, pre-VII rite, a deacon is not the same as a deacon in the Novus Ordo. Traditionally, a deacon is the last step in the priestly formation before ordination as a priest. Hence, a deacon is always a seminarian. “Deacon” (and "Sub-Deacon) is also a term used for an assistant to the priest during High Mass. So, a priest acting as deacon or subdeacon at High Mass may distribute Communion. The traditional communities (FSSP, etc.) have been permitted to retain the traditional subdiaconate.

Not meaning to be rude, but I don’t see how it matters whether the deacon was transitional (as was the case before) or permanent, or a seminarian or not. The character is the same.

In the past, deacons were the extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion - however, generally this was for when a priest was available, or a case of necessity like the administration of Viaticum. Since that was regulated by Canon law, and the decrees of the S.C.R., I don’t know how it would be taken into account today especially given the revised Code of Canon Law. I suppose it’s one of those things like “can people receive in the hand at a Traditional Mass?”

 

[laudamus_te]

Not meaning to be rude, but I don’t see how it matters whether the deacon was transitional (as was the case before) or permanent, or a seminarian or not. The character is the same.

In the past, deacons were the extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion - however, generally this was for when a priest was available, or a case of necessity like the administration of Viaticum. Since that was regulated by Canon law, and the decrees of the S.C.R., I don’t know how it would be taken into account today especially given the revised Code of Canon Law. I suppose it’s one of those things like “can people receive in the hand at a Traditional Mass?”

A question was asked, I answered it to the best of my knowledge and understanding, as one who attends exclusively the TLM. A discussion (or argument, more likely) about the problems inherent with the two rites existing side-by-side, which your post raises, was perhaps the intent of the OP. Perhaps he can clarify.

 

[mozier]

A question was asked, I answered it to the best of my knowledge and understanding, as one who attends exclusively the TLM. A discussion (or argument, more likely) about the problems inherent with the two rites existing side-by-side, which your post raises, was perhaps the intent of the OP. Perhaps he can clarify.

There was no intent to start an argument in my question, and I urge that this thread not become one. No, my intention was a simple one: we just had a very successful TLM in Tallahassee. Our only problem was the communion distribution. We were fortunate to have two priests for distribution, but with the structure of the church the way it is, it would have been great to have had another communion “station” and a third priest (we used prie-dieu’s due to the church not having a communion rail).

I was then wondering if a third priest could not have been available, would a deacon, permanent or transistional, been acceptable to distribute communion? I know that the TLM didn’t have permanent deacons up to the 1960’s, but were not permanent deacons re-implemented in 1967, just prior to the Novus Ordo (Advent 1969)? And being that deacons do distribute communion today, I was wondering if they did in the TLM, as well.

My question was an honest one, not intending to start any trouble. It was just a thought that needed answering.

 

[laudamus_te]

There was no intent to start an argument in my question, and I urge that this thread not become one. No, my intention was a simple one: we just had a very successful TLM in Tallahassee. Our only problem was the communion distribution. We were fortunate to have two priests for distribution, but with the structure of the church the way it is, it would have been great to have had another communion “station” and a third priest (we used prie-dieu’s due to the church not having a communion rail).

I was then wondering if a third priest could not have been available, would a deacon, permanent or transistional, been acceptable to distribute communion? I know that the TLM didn’t have permanent deacons up to the 1960’s, but were not permanent deacons re-implemented in 1967, just prior to the Novus Ordo (Advent 1969)? And being that deacons do distribute communion today, I was wondering if they did in the TLM, as well.

My question was an honest one, not intending to start any trouble. It was just a thought that needed answering.

Thanks for the clarification, mozier, and I apologize for being suspicious about your motives.

As to your experience at Mass recently, how many communicants were there? At my chapel, there are generally about 100+ people receiving, and one priest can handle it perfectly well. It may take 10-15 minutes, but that is an excellent opportunity for prayer and meditation. I have also attended a TLM at a diocesan church with fewer communicants, and 2 or 3 priests came out to assist. I have to wonder if this obsession with “getting it over with quickly” is a modern one.

You’re correct about the date of 1967 for the permanent diaconate being restored, but it would have taken some time for deacons to be available, well after the New Mass was finally implemented. We did not get a deacon at my church until the 1980s.

I’m sure Deacon Ed B. will be along to answer your questions, too.

 

[mozier]

We were very fortunate to have well over 300 communicants! The Co-Cathedral, which is quite a large building, was about 90 percent full. It was a sight to see.

Our parish is blest with a very excellent permanent deacon, and even though I haven’t talked to him at all about him being in a TLM mass, I have also wondered if he could do any role in a future one, including communion. He couldn’t make our recent TLM, but he has been very supportive of me and the effort to have the TLM. I was wondering if the rubrics of the TLM would allow for a deacon to distribute communion. Apparently, it does not. As you can see, I have much to learn!

 

[kleary]

A quick question: In the Tridentine Latin Mass, may a deacon distribute communion?

Yes. A deacon may distribute Holy Communion in the Tridentine Mass but it is highly unlikely that you will ever see it done. The same is for permanent deacons - they can do it as well but again this is highly unlikely because TLM only parishes like mine - well the parishioners frown against the permanent deaconate and it would seem offensive to them to allow it so we do not do it -

Out of respect for those attending the TLM I would say - transitional deacons yes - permanent deacons no - because many who attend the TLM frown against the permanent diaconate.

Ken

 

[JuanCarlos]

Deacons were the original EMHC’s.

 

[Sam88]

Traditionally, a deacon is the last step in the priestly formation before ordination as a priest. Hence, a deacon is always a seminarian.

A deacon (whether transitional or permanent) is ordained. A deacon may be a seminarian, but his state is different from a seminarian who has not been ordained.

Of course, although a deacon may distribute Communion, I can’t see any problem if the priest(s) choose to do the distribution without the deacon.

 

[mozier]

Ah, so the answer is technically, yes, a deacon may distribute communion in the TLM (especially today in 2008, where permanent deacons are more common plus the TLM is the Extraordinary Form of the Latin-Rite Mass), but in some congregations/parishes, it may be frowned upon. I think that answered the question. Thank you all.