TLM fasting obligations

[scriabin]

In the NO we should fast an hour before Mass. Before Vatican II I think it was 3 hours or was it from the previous evening?

I guess my question is just because we’re using the TLM does that mean we do all the things associated with it? Mantillas, for instance, are they required?

 

[Cran]

TLM doesn’t change canon law.

Although many people who consider themselves “traditional” and attend the TLM fast much longer (the traditional midnight-fast) and cover their heads if female, it is not MANDATORY (but it isn’t bad, either ).

Many might let out a gasp, but the TLM (I’ve got only one TLM in my reach, only once a week), usually nobody covers the head (well, of you count the biretta of the priest, one…). The priests are from the FSSP would have said something if it was mandatory, I suppose

But imagine what that means when the motu comes into effect… female altar servers, for example, are allowed if the priest who is to celebrate the mass doesn’t object … TLM with altar girls? Hm. Possible. A lot of things will change with the motu, I suppose.

 

[Dauphin]

In the NO we should fast an hour before Mass. Before Vatican II I think it was 3 hours or was it from the previous evening?

I guess my question is just because we’re using the TLM does that mean we do all the things associated with it? Mantillas, for instance, are they required?

My Angelus Missal (Angelus is owned by the SSPX) says that there need only be a 1 hour fast before receiving. It strongly encourages a longer fast, though.

 

[Melanie01]

The one hour fast is the lawful requirement but those who attend the conservative chapels tend to favour the pre-Vatican 2 requirements in the fasting from midnight. The old vigil requirements, ember days and Fridays with absteninence are seriously followed as well.

It is all about how seriously you take your Faith.

 

[Sure]

The one hour fast is the lawful requirement but those who attend the conservative chapels tend to favour the pre-Vatican 2 requirements in the fasting from midnight. The old vigil requirements, ember days and Fridays with absteninence are seriously followed as well.

It is all about how seriously you take your Faith.

One hour is the minimum required. To presume that those who fast beyond that take their Faith more “seriously” is misguided. An individual who undertakes a form of mortification is not necessarily “more” faithful than one who does not. We all are called to sacrifice in different ways and at different times. We must observe the minimum, but anything beyond is entirely optional and in no way reflects a person’s faith or character.

On another note, how do you know what people who attend “conservative” chapels observe in terms of a fast? Do they tell everyone how long they fasted? Who can tell whether you have fasted 1 hour or 1 day?

 

[markadm]

A good point, that Dauphin is hinting at is that any fasting or abstinence is specified as minimuma in Canon law. That is to say, even if we are only obliged to fast on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday, it will do us better good if we fast more. See my point?

 

[Yerusalyim]

And remember, there are dispensations even for the one hour fast. Come to think of it, when Christ instituted the Eucharist the Apostles had just finished eating a BIG meal…with out a one hour fast. The fast is DISCIPLINE not really DOCTRINE.

 

[Genesis315]

Fasts and mantillas are part of canon law. But I would think altar server gender is part of the liturgical rubrics, so using the 1962 Missal would only allow boys (that being, I know a TLM that used girls one time given some circumstances–some people were of course ticked off–and this priest is very hardcore about the TLM, founding a society to spread it in our state).

 

[Cran]

Fasts and mantillas are part of canon law. But I would think altar server gender is part of the liturgical rubrics, so using the 1962 Missal would only allow boys (that being, I know a TLM that used girls one time given some circumstances–some people were of course ticked off–and this priest is very hardcore about the TLM, founding a society to spread it in our state).

Where are mantillas part in the current canon law?

Even the canon law of 1917 allowed female servers IF NO MALE COULD BE FOUND but they where to reply in some ditance from the altar to make clear the difference.
And as there exists an clarification of pope John Paul II. about § 230 of canon law, it would be a question of the local bishop and the celebrating priest to allow or disallow it today, as the rubics should not “overrule” canon law?

 

[Genesis315]

Where are mantillas part in the current canon law?

Sorry for confusion. I didn’t mean they were part of current canon law, just that the requirement to wear them would in general be a matter of canon law.

Even the canon law of 1917 allowed female servers IF NO MALE COULD BE FOUND but they where to reply in some ditance from the altar to make clear the difference.
And as there exists an clarification of pope John Paul II. about § 230 of canon law, it would be a question of the local bishop and the celebrating priest to allow or disallow it today, as the rubics should not “overrule” canon law?

Current canon law does mandate female servers–in fact, a priest may choose not to use them if he desire, no bishop can make him allow girls.

So that being said, if the 1962 rubrics were to be followed, they would not violate the canon law since using females is not mandatory.

 

[Cran]

No, they would definitely not violate ist Sorry if I gave this impression. I was just thinking about it being allowed or disallowed on principle.

 

[demerzel85]

Even the canon law of 1917 allowed female servers IF NO MALE COULD BE FOUND but they where to reply in some ditance from the altar to make clear the difference.

Even then they were not altar servers. They just gave the server’s responses from outside the sanctuary.

 

[Carthusianish]

Scriabin

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Off topic but I just wanted to say: Scriabin’s piano music is great. For anyone who has not heard at least his music and you like classical music (technically late romanticism) treat yourself to some of his Preludes or Sonatas. Great stuff!!

I was impressed to see someone using his name as their forum handle – assuming this is the refernce

/advertisement/advocation for Scriabin =off

That is all, please return to your regularly scheduled discussion…

 

[Discipline]

Where are mantillas part in the current canon law?

Even the canon law of 1917 allowed female servers IF NO MALE COULD BE FOUND but they where to reply in some ditance from the altar to make clear the difference.
And as there exists an clarification of pope John Paul II. about § 230 of canon law, it would be a question of the local bishop and the celebrating priest to allow or disallow it today, as the rubics should not “overrule” canon law?

Oh yeah? I wish I would have known that back in middle school. Sitting on the curb in front of my parent’s home at 05:15 on Wednesday mornings waiting for Monsignor to pick me up so we could drive over the the local convent for morning Mass was not always the most pleasurable experience.

Some dissenting priest(s) who is antagonized by the full return of the Tridentine Mass is SURE to use altar women/girls to “make a point.”

 

[Caesar]

The current Code of Canon Law requires one hour of fasting before Mass as a requirement to receive Holy Communion (except in the matter of imminent death). The 1984 Code of Canon Law abbrogated the former 1917 Code for the entire Church. Traditionalists are not exempt from this.

Now, the one hour of fasting called for by Canon Law is the bare minimum required by the Church. Prior to the 1984 Code, the minimum was three hours, which was established during the reign of Pius XII. The requirements before the reform of Pius XII required fasting from midnight, which for Sunday Mass meant a fasting period of 8-12 hours.

While we are required to fast for only an hour, we should strive to do better then the bare minimum required of us. Most of us are quite capable of fasting for more then one hour.

 

[Caesar]

Where are mantillas part in the current canon law?

Even the canon law of 1917 allowed female servers IF NO MALE COULD BE FOUND but they where to reply in some ditance from the altar to make clear the difference.
And as there exists an clarification of pope John Paul II. about § 230 of canon law, it would be a question of the local bishop and the celebrating priest to allow or disallow it today, as the rubics should not “overrule” canon law?

Note that the 1917 Code of Canon Law spoke only of females making the responses. There would be no females serving at the Altar under any circumstance, although if no man could be found then a woman could be allowed to make the responses while standing outside the sanctuary.