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demerzel85
Guest
Sancta Maria Mater Dei ora pro nobis peccatoribus nunc et in hora mortis nostrae.
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netmilsmom
Guest
Right, what you said!Sancta Maria Mater Dei ora pro nobis peccatoribus nunc et in hora mortis nostrae.
Geez I have to brush up on the Latin. My most holy Pastor is on the rotation for the only TLM here in Detroit. I’m sure he will be celebrating at my parish!!!
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demerzel85
Guest
The Pater Noster, Ave Maria and Gloria Patri are relatively easy to learn for a person like myself who is not proficient in Latin in the first place.
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djrakowski
Guest
Under this forthcoming indult, does the archbishop have the authority to limit the celebration in our diocese?Right, what you said!
Geez I have to brush up on the Latin. My most holy Pastor is on the rotation for the only TLM here in Detroit. I’m sure he will be celebrating at my parish!!!
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justme
Guest
How many rumored dates have we had for this as yet to appear indult?
Many, many dates were give for the previous pope to do this. Then most recently there was last year and then this past Easter. Wheren’t there a couple of dates following Easter also?
Then there is that other rumor that it has already been signed but as of yet not released.
But given that, yes every bishop has authority over his diocese, even if this rumored indult is universal.
All the bishop has to do is remove the priest from a parish.
Many, many dates were give for the previous pope to do this. Then most recently there was last year and then this past Easter. Wheren’t there a couple of dates following Easter also?
Then there is that other rumor that it has already been signed but as of yet not released.
First, it is only a rumor so there is no offical “forthcoming indult”.Under this forthcoming indult, does the archbishop have the authority to limit the celebration in our diocese?
But given that, yes every bishop has authority over his diocese, even if this rumored indult is universal.
All the bishop has to do is remove the priest from a parish.
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netmilsmom
Guest
I think that even if he can limit it for most parishes, he can’t for us and the Grotto. We are under foreign Bishops.Under this forthcoming indult, does the archbishop have the authority to limit the celebration in our diocese?
In fact, and don’t quote me on this but I think that if Slovakia or Ireland got the Indult, it could be celebrated by the priests under those Bishops. Maybe not, but that sure would be interesting!
Diane would be a good one to ask.
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netmilsmom
Guest
The question comes down to, why would a Bishop do this? What would he gain.But given that, yes every bishop has authority over his diocese, even if this rumored indult is universal.
All the bishop has to do is remove the priest from a parish.
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Brendan
Guest
My understanding of the indult was that the right was granted universally, but that the bishop would have to forbid a particular priest, in writing, stating the specific reasons why.
That decision could then be appealed to the Vatican based on the reasons given by the bishop.
If the reasons are not good, the Vatican may override.
That decision could then be appealed to the Vatican based on the reasons given by the bishop.
If the reasons are not good, the Vatican may override.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
I have a question, what do you mean you are under “foreign bishops”?I think that even if he can limit it for most parishes, he can’t for us and the Grotto. We are under foreign Bishops.
Do you mean that you are in the Latin Catholic Church and live within a diocese where a foreign Latin Bishop has jurisdiction over your parish rather than the local ordinary?
If so, I did not think that this was possible.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
I can see some situations where a priest might force this upon a parish that is very happy with the normative rite of the Mass.The question comes down to, why would a Bishop do this? What would he gain.
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AlexV
Guest
The term “normative” has no basis in official Roman Rite liturgical law beyond the title “Missa Normativa” that was used to describe the 1967 “presentation” of what would constitute the “normal” Sunday Mass for a parish in the Roman Rite.
The Missale Romanum does not use the adjective “normativa”. Nor do any of the official liturgical books besides the Missal.
For some Roman Catholics, the 2002 Missal is NOT normative by any stretch of the imagination.
It’s usually used in prejudicial circumstances by people who have a problem at some level with the idea of complete freedom for the so-called Tridentine Mass.
It’s historically inaccurate and juridically without meaning.
As for those poor people who might be “forced” into the Tridentine Mass…cry me a river. Let’s chat about the hundreds of thousands forced to endure abuse with bishops and pastors who tolerate and perpetrate all manner of innovation and nonsense.
It’s historically inaccurate and juridically without meaning.
As for me, I happen to be under a “foreign bishop” from what someone on these boards called an “irrelevant continent”.
The Missale Romanum does not use the adjective “normativa”. Nor do any of the official liturgical books besides the Missal.
For some Roman Catholics, the 2002 Missal is NOT normative by any stretch of the imagination.
It’s usually used in prejudicial circumstances by people who have a problem at some level with the idea of complete freedom for the so-called Tridentine Mass.
It’s historically inaccurate and juridically without meaning.
As for those poor people who might be “forced” into the Tridentine Mass…cry me a river. Let’s chat about the hundreds of thousands forced to endure abuse with bishops and pastors who tolerate and perpetrate all manner of innovation and nonsense.
It’s historically inaccurate and juridically without meaning.
As for me, I happen to be under a “foreign bishop” from what someone on these boards called an “irrelevant continent”.
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kleary
Guest
The main reason for this “General Indult” is due to the failure of many Bishops to grant the current Indult in their dioceses.Under this forthcoming indult, does the archbishop have the authority to limit the celebration in our diocese?
The TLM will no longer be “for those who request it” but as AN ALTERNATIVE to the Novus Ordo Mass, and not just for the lay people but for the priests as well.
I am sure a local Bishop would have to go through a LOT of red tape to stop any priest from saying the TLM in his Diocese, and basically I am most sure none of them would bother to take the trouble to do it.
Ken
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djrakowski
Guest
Thanks, Ken… that’s sort-of how I’ve come to understand it. Instead of priests seeking permission to offer the TLM and being granted (or denied) on a case-by-case basis, bishops will have to go on record as denying permission.The main reason for this “General Indult” is due to the failure of many Bishops to grant the current Indult in their dioceses.
The TLM will no longer be “for those who request it” but as AN ALTERNATIVE to the Novus Ordo Mass, and not just for the lay people but for the priests as well.
I am sure a local Bishop would have to go through a LOT of red tape to stop any priest from saying the TLM in his Diocese, and basically I am most sure none of them would bother to take the trouble to do it.
Ken
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thistle
Guest
As it would be an indult Mass am I correct in thinking that although a TLM might be offered as one of the Masses in your local parish church as a choice for those who might want it, it cannot be imposed on the faithful by making all Masses TLM?Thanks, Ken… that’s sort-of how I’ve come to understand it. Instead of priests seeking permission to offer the TLM and being granted (or denied) on a case-by-case basis, bishops will have to go on record as denying permission.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
No, thats not the way it works. This new rumored indult will leave it up to each individual priest to decide. The bishop will have to tell him no in writing. So a pariah priest who wants to can replace every Mass with the old Latin Mass if he so choses until the bishop writes him to stop.As it would be an indult Mass am I correct in thinking that although a TLM might be offered as one of the Masses in your local parish church as a choice for those who might want it, it cannot be imposed on the faithful by making all Masses TLM?
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SnorterLuster
Guest
Did you mean a parish priest? Or was your intention to say any priest who says the old mass should be an outcast?So a pariah priest who wants to can replace every Mass with the old Latin Mass if he so choses until the bishop writes him to stop.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Wow… can’t believe that mistake.Did you mean a parish priest? Or was your intention to say any priest who says the old mass should be an outcast?
Of course I did not mean the way it looks.
I did mean parish priest.
I am all for a greater usage of the old Latin Mass but I not for it as a replacement of the current Mass. While I know some do prefer the old one, many do prefer the current one and neither should be ignored.
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SnorterLuster
Guest
I thought you probably meant to type Parish and accidentally hit the ‘a’ key next to the ‘s’. Odd how it read ok either way.Wow… can’t believe that mistake.
Of course I did not mean the way it looks.
I did mean parish priest.
I am all for a greater usage of the old Latin Mass but I not for it as a replacement of the current Mass. While I know some do prefer the old one, many do prefer the current one and neither should be ignored.
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thistle
Guest
What if the faithful in a particular parish do not want the TLM but the priest and bishop do, is it then imposed on the faithful even though they don’t want it and even though it is an indult Mass only and not the normative.No, thats not the way it works. This new rumored indult will leave it up to each individual priest to decide. The bishop will have to tell him no in writing. So a pariah priest who wants to can replace every Mass with the old Latin Mass if he so choses until the bishop writes him to stop.
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