Z
Zeldarocks2
Guest
What’s the greater sin? To remain with my partner and continue to be a Catholic? Or to say “screw it” and leave God and faith, religion behind forever?
To be in a Gay relationship and Catholic, or to leave God behind, what's the greater sin?
- Status
A
ahs
Guest
Aside from keeping a name/nominal identity [Catholic], what would be the difference?
If you remain Catholic, would you refrain from carnal unions with your partner and live chastely? Or would you say “screw it” and live how you want and just call yourself “Catholic”?
If you remain Catholic, would you refrain from carnal unions with your partner and live chastely? Or would you say “screw it” and live how you want and just call yourself “Catholic”?
Z
Zeldarocks2
Guest
I think it more toxic to leave the Church out of spite and hatred, than to stay and be a Catholic, albeit an imperfect one in an “irregular” union.
I can be an imperfect Catholic, abstaining from the Eucharist, living the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the best of my ability, with my partner by my side. Or, I can leave Jesus and the Church behind in enmity and contempt…
I can be an imperfect Catholic, abstaining from the Eucharist, living the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the best of my ability, with my partner by my side. Or, I can leave Jesus and the Church behind in enmity and contempt…
E
Eichelbaum
Guest
If God means so little to you that you are willing to throw Him aside because of this, then I can only offer to pray that you and I are given graces for a deeper conversion.
But to answer your question: to insist on mortally sinning is to turn away from God. When one continues to do so, at some point, in justice, they may find that they are given fewer and fewer graces … and that, ultimately, they are unable to return to God outside of someone’s intercession on their behalf. Sin kills, and a person will find every aspect of their spiritual life to be quite dead if they insist on remaining in their sins.
Therefore, let’s not focus on what is the worst type of sin out of several, but let’s rather focus on repentance. Only when we repent, and when we turn to God with our whole hearts, can we truly expect that He will give us the graces we need in order to accomplish what we know to be right.
Now, it is outside of my experience to council someone in a situation like yours.
But you are asking, for all intents and purposes, for advice on what sort of death might be the least painful.
Why choose death at all when God is giving you life?
But to answer your question: to insist on mortally sinning is to turn away from God. When one continues to do so, at some point, in justice, they may find that they are given fewer and fewer graces … and that, ultimately, they are unable to return to God outside of someone’s intercession on their behalf. Sin kills, and a person will find every aspect of their spiritual life to be quite dead if they insist on remaining in their sins.
Therefore, let’s not focus on what is the worst type of sin out of several, but let’s rather focus on repentance. Only when we repent, and when we turn to God with our whole hearts, can we truly expect that He will give us the graces we need in order to accomplish what we know to be right.
Now, it is outside of my experience to council someone in a situation like yours.
But you are asking, for all intents and purposes, for advice on what sort of death might be the least painful.
Why choose death at all when God is giving you life?
T
Trident_H
Guest
Buddy. You can’t leave God behind. You know that. And you know my opinion on this from both sides.
I don’t want to steer you wrong. I want you to be happy. But the thing is there are things in this world that’d make me pretty damn happy too. Things that I really shouldn’t do if I want to stay faithful to what I believe. So I’ve got to stay away from them right? Even when the choices are really tough.
So that’s the only advice I can give you. I can’t tell you a lie in public. Even though I care about you.
Sorry if it’s not what makes things easier.
Peace Zelda. I wish you well man. I really do.
-Trident
I don’t want to steer you wrong. I want you to be happy. But the thing is there are things in this world that’d make me pretty damn happy too. Things that I really shouldn’t do if I want to stay faithful to what I believe. So I’ve got to stay away from them right? Even when the choices are really tough.
So that’s the only advice I can give you. I can’t tell you a lie in public. Even though I care about you.
Sorry if it’s not what makes things easier.
Peace Zelda. I wish you well man. I really do.
-Trident
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Viki63
Guest
Dear OP,
If those are your only choices, I hope you will remain as close to Christ as you can. And we can pray that he will reveal to you how immensely he loves you, and how little the pleasures, even the loves, of this life are worth compared to his friendship.
Don’t you want the best for your partner? If not for yourself, consider what sin will do to him. Would you consign your partner to a dark airless room, alone and starving, for eternity? Or would you rather he ends up in a beautiful city, full of loving people, where you and he can share the joy of knowing God’s beatific vision forever?
Life is really short. I became a Christian 45 years ago, and the years have dissolved into the past like mist. Pretty soon I’ll die, and I don’t want any sins to stand between me and Christ. No love, no pleasure is worth that.
Please consider carefully, and pray about your choices.
.
If those are your only choices, I hope you will remain as close to Christ as you can. And we can pray that he will reveal to you how immensely he loves you, and how little the pleasures, even the loves, of this life are worth compared to his friendship.
Don’t you want the best for your partner? If not for yourself, consider what sin will do to him. Would you consign your partner to a dark airless room, alone and starving, for eternity? Or would you rather he ends up in a beautiful city, full of loving people, where you and he can share the joy of knowing God’s beatific vision forever?
Life is really short. I became a Christian 45 years ago, and the years have dissolved into the past like mist. Pretty soon I’ll die, and I don’t want any sins to stand between me and Christ. No love, no pleasure is worth that.
Please consider carefully, and pray about your choices.
.
F
FractalFire
Guest
I was actually thinking about this today actually (or at least, a related topic). I don’t know if my answer can help, but here goes…
I was thinking of C. S. Lewis’ writing in The Great Divorce. If you haven’t read it – (which you should
) it points out that many of the reasons a person might be separated from God eternally is often their love for something other than God.
They are unwilling, for whatever reason, to turn to God and desire to replace Him with something else – a beloved son, a grumbling attitude, a pleasure, intellectual smugness, and so on. In the end, however, because God is, quite literally, The Good – the *only * thing that exists by it’s own nature and hence the only thing of ultimate consequence – their turning away from Him makes the thing ultimately worthless. They discovered that God was behind all the pleasures and joys in life. Without Him, even sinful pleasures lost their sweetness.
For all evil things are merely perversions of something once good – intellectual pride is a perversion of true intellect, avarice of perversion of the desire for good things, a pharisaical mindset a perversion of the desire to do good, lust a perversion of the desire for sex. Turn away from the One Good and these things too will lose their virtue (but you yourself will be less and less able to notice, for so will you).
So let’s play a little thought experiment. Suppose you stood at heaven’s threshold before God and He explains that He has forbidden homosexual relations and they are against the moral law. He also explains that in your current state you will be unable to comprehend this, but if you turn to Him, He can help you see. You now have two choices. Agree with Him and trust his Truth, or deny Him and declare Him evil. Which would you hold? Would such a God be abhorrent? Or would you cling to Him and repent? [Do not take into consideration the reward of heaven – merely the question. For good is good for its own sake and not for any reward. The really important bit, ultimately, is the choice itself. The consequences come afterwards. Even heaven, marred by rejection of God, would become a hell in the end. Indeed, Heaven without Him is a contradiction, for in Him is all that is Good, and without Him Good cannot be.] So what is your answer: Yeah or Nay? Could you love such a Good and say “Let thy will be done?” or would you spurn Him and say “Let my will be done?”
This is the choice before you now. You are convinced (presumably) that God is the source of all goodness and what He has said is real. You also believe that He has established His Church and given to them His moral law. You are now faced with a choice – you may either choose to accept this law (and hence God) or you may choose to reject this law (and hence God). Do not be deceived. God and His Laws are one and the same. God himself **is **the Good and his commands are an outflow of His nature. If you really believe what you seem to believe about God, then it follows that to reject His law is to reject Him.
So really, there was ever only one sin – to reject God. Either way you travel matters not. Believing intellectually in Him and following Him only up to a point or disbelieving and flaunting Him in all aspects of your life is ultimately the same thing. If you cannot go the whole way, then why go any of the way? Your dilemma reminds me, by the way, of this former atheist’s conversion. He said
I will be honest. I struggle with a deep-seated addiction to pornography of a rather horrific type. In my deepest moments, when I give in, I am frightened by what I do. I remind myself what I believe is true and remind myself that what I am a doing is wrong. But I don’t care. I just don’t care. I know it is wrong, I know it is perverted, but I do it anyway. It is not as if I delude myself into thinking – well, maybe this is okay. I have the power to resist and I know that God is present with me. But I choose evil anyway. I see the face of Good and I reject it. I would rather have that which is evil, and ultimately, my own unhappiness, than turn away from my sin. It is the most horrifying thing I have ever felt in my life – nearly demonic in the sheer, willfulness of its evil. As C. S. Lewis said:
I was thinking of C. S. Lewis’ writing in The Great Divorce. If you haven’t read it – (which you should
) it points out that many of the reasons a person might be separated from God eternally is often their love for something other than God.They are unwilling, for whatever reason, to turn to God and desire to replace Him with something else – a beloved son, a grumbling attitude, a pleasure, intellectual smugness, and so on. In the end, however, because God is, quite literally, The Good – the *only * thing that exists by it’s own nature and hence the only thing of ultimate consequence – their turning away from Him makes the thing ultimately worthless. They discovered that God was behind all the pleasures and joys in life. Without Him, even sinful pleasures lost their sweetness.
For all evil things are merely perversions of something once good – intellectual pride is a perversion of true intellect, avarice of perversion of the desire for good things, a pharisaical mindset a perversion of the desire to do good, lust a perversion of the desire for sex. Turn away from the One Good and these things too will lose their virtue (but you yourself will be less and less able to notice, for so will you).
So let’s play a little thought experiment. Suppose you stood at heaven’s threshold before God and He explains that He has forbidden homosexual relations and they are against the moral law. He also explains that in your current state you will be unable to comprehend this, but if you turn to Him, He can help you see. You now have two choices. Agree with Him and trust his Truth, or deny Him and declare Him evil. Which would you hold? Would such a God be abhorrent? Or would you cling to Him and repent? [Do not take into consideration the reward of heaven – merely the question. For good is good for its own sake and not for any reward. The really important bit, ultimately, is the choice itself. The consequences come afterwards. Even heaven, marred by rejection of God, would become a hell in the end. Indeed, Heaven without Him is a contradiction, for in Him is all that is Good, and without Him Good cannot be.] So what is your answer: Yeah or Nay? Could you love such a Good and say “Let thy will be done?” or would you spurn Him and say “Let my will be done?”
This is the choice before you now. You are convinced (presumably) that God is the source of all goodness and what He has said is real. You also believe that He has established His Church and given to them His moral law. You are now faced with a choice – you may either choose to accept this law (and hence God) or you may choose to reject this law (and hence God). Do not be deceived. God and His Laws are one and the same. God himself **is **the Good and his commands are an outflow of His nature. If you really believe what you seem to believe about God, then it follows that to reject His law is to reject Him.
So really, there was ever only one sin – to reject God. Either way you travel matters not. Believing intellectually in Him and following Him only up to a point or disbelieving and flaunting Him in all aspects of your life is ultimately the same thing. If you cannot go the whole way, then why go any of the way? Your dilemma reminds me, by the way, of this former atheist’s conversion. He said
I would not despair. There is still another option – your dilemma is a false one. You can reject both options, turn to God and repent. If He is who He said He is, why not accept what He has said?
I will be honest. I struggle with a deep-seated addiction to pornography of a rather horrific type. In my deepest moments, when I give in, I am frightened by what I do. I remind myself what I believe is true and remind myself that what I am a doing is wrong. But I don’t care. I just don’t care. I know it is wrong, I know it is perverted, but I do it anyway. It is not as if I delude myself into thinking – well, maybe this is okay. I have the power to resist and I know that God is present with me. But I choose evil anyway. I see the face of Good and I reject it. I would rather have that which is evil, and ultimately, my own unhappiness, than turn away from my sin. It is the most horrifying thing I have ever felt in my life – nearly demonic in the sheer, willfulness of its evil. As C. S. Lewis said:
But there is hope for both of us! We are not perfect, but we can still turn away from the attitude I told you of. We can still turn towards God (towards the Good) and ask for repentance. Your heart still beats. There is time. There is *always *A Choice (though not the one you have given here).
O
odhiambo
Guest
You cannot claim to be Catholic and lead a homosexual life at the same time;
A true Catholic rejects homosexuality; One practicing homosexuality has turned his back on God’s law concerning this practice.
This may help
J
JosieN
Guest
The greater sin is to remain with your partner. If you were a good Catholic you would know this is wrong and that it offends God. Unless you confess and give up this sinful life you are saying “screw it” anyway and you are not really being a Catholic or a Christian, because you are not taking your religion seriously
M
mountee
Guest
i do not have a way of responding to you that I feel would be helpful but I will gladly pray that the Holy Spirit will fill you full of the wisdom you need to find your way forward. I do believe that placing yourself under the guidance of your parish priest or a spiritual advisor could be very useful in this spiritual dilemma.
Cloisters
Well-known member
You’re only one step away from the latter. If you’re actually engaging in sodomy, and receiving communion, that is indeed a very grave sin. Your partner is an idol, in this case, and you’re going to have to ask God to help you to do His Will, which is perfect for you.
There is no ‘third lifestyle.’ Here is a blog by partnered-but-chaste Catholic lesbians: aqueercalling.com/
Wear a Green Scapular with St. Benedict medal attached, and see what happens. Instead of engaging in sodomy, engage in contemplative prayer, which will lead you where God wants you to be.
Blessings,
Cloisters
L
LethalMouse
Guest
It would be the greater sin to leave God.
Some might say you aren’t being “Catholic” but I would debate that you are obviously incapable of not seeing what you are doing as “right” or justified.
You have several options here as I would see them:
Some might say you aren’t being “Catholic” but I would debate that you are obviously incapable of not seeing what you are doing as “right” or justified.
You have several options here as I would see them:
- Stay, remain gay, and either end up forgiven or not…no one knows for sure but you would be at least putting in some effort so brownie points I think.
- Stay and God will eventually help change your heart to see things differently and the issue would resolve itself
- Leave God out of spite and defiance… I figure the least likely to come with forgiveness.
E
Edmundus1581
Guest
I’m saddened by all these replies telling you that there’s no difference, or that what you are doing is so bad that you have already left the Church, or might as well.
We all sin. If it’s a mortal sin then we don’t receive communion, but still turn up. Many of us are tempted at some point to leave the Church for the sake our sin.
We keep praying and keep trusting that God’s love is greater than our sin.
We make the most of the graces we receive, and beg for more.
We don’t judge others.
Many blessings on you!
Never give up. :dts:
We all sin. If it’s a mortal sin then we don’t receive communion, but still turn up. Many of us are tempted at some point to leave the Church for the sake our sin.
We keep praying and keep trusting that God’s love is greater than our sin.
We make the most of the graces we receive, and beg for more.
We don’t judge others.
Many blessings on you!
Never give up. :dts:
E
Edmundus1581
Guest
Just answering your question, I’m pretty sure that moral theology would say that they are not the same sin, are not of equal weight, and that leaving God behind is the greater sin.
1
1Lord1Faith
Guest
What’s the greater sin? To continue using birth control and continue to be a Catholic? Or to say “screw it” and leave God and faith, religion behind forever?
What’s the greater sin? To look at pornograghy and continue to be a Catholic? Or to say “screw it” and leave God and faith, religion behind forever?
What’s the greater sin? To publicly condemn sinners and continue to be a Catholic? Or to say “screw it” and leave God and faith, religion behind forever?
What’s the greater sin? To remain angry with my friend and continue to be a Catholic? Or to say “screw it” and leave God and faith, religion behind forever?
What’s the greater sin? To pig out at dinner and continue to be a Catholic? Or to say “screw it” and leave God and faith, religion behind forever?
What’s the greater sin? To irregularly attend Mass and continue to be a Catholic? Or to say “screw it” and leave God and faith, religion behind forever?
The greater sin is always turning your back on God forever. You know what He wants; if you don’t, find out. So do your best.
A
Allegra
Guest
Giving oneself permission to do something sinful IS leaving God behind. Anytime one knowingly commits sin, that is effectively what they’re doing. It is important to stay with the Church because through prayer and being in the presence if the Eucharist, one can get the strength to over come one’s sin.
P
ProdglArchitect
Guest
Either choice is mortally sinful if done with knowledge and consent of the will. With that said, if you remain in close proximity to God there’s a greater likelihood of overcoming your sinful inclination and embracing His will, so I’d say that leaving God is the worse choice.
However, if you are engaged in this relationship, do not receive the Eucharist, as that will only “Heap damnation upon yourself,” as Paul puts it.
J
johnnyc176
Guest
Jesus Christ and His Church are One and the Same. Sin separates you from God so in effect wouldn’t it be ‘leaving the Church’ either way?
It is not a question of God loving us…that’s a given. Mortal sin is a refusal of God’s offer of life and love. There’s a reason it is called ‘mortal’ sin.
G
Gertabelle
Guest
Wow, been there, done that… many years ago…
I had that same question when I chose to live in lesbian relationships for some ten years. I chose to leave the Church, and looking back, I think that was the wrong choice.
It would be extremely difficult to remain a practicing Catholic (attending mass, praying the rosary, etc.), but I pray you make the effort. If you can find a trusted priest – one who agrees with the Church but understands the reality of human life, temptation, sin, mercy, compassion – it would probably give you comfort to know that someone in your parish knows your situation.
Does your partner support your choice to be Catholic? It could be even more difficult if your partner is against this.
Even though I left the Church for about 14 years, I made an effort to remain in a relationship with God. It was a long and hard road because I did leave the Church and wander through all kinds of explorations, and well, it was not all good.
You obviously have the gift of faith. Don’t throw that away.
When I was in the midst of an eight-year-long relationship with one woman, I remember one morning spontaneously praying as I was leaving for work. I stopped next to my car and took in the beauty of the early spring morning. And I said, “God, if you’re there, I want to do what you want…well, I want to want what you want. I can’t change the way I am. I don’t even want to change the way that I am. But if my being a lesbian offends you, then you’re going to have to do something about it, because I can’t and won’t.”
Here I am, years later, without a trace of SSA, the mom of a beautiful 12-year-old boy, and dating a very Catholic gentleman – God only knows where that will lead.
Point is, place your relationship with God at the center of your life, regardless of all else, including all advice from all of us. God at the center of your life! God at the center! And remain humble before Him, trusting always in His love and mercy. God at the center of your life!
If you lived in my area, I’d give you a hug and invite you over for coffee. As it is, here’s a cyber hug :hug3: and an assurance of my ongoing prayers!
God bless you!
I had that same question when I chose to live in lesbian relationships for some ten years. I chose to leave the Church, and looking back, I think that was the wrong choice.
It would be extremely difficult to remain a practicing Catholic (attending mass, praying the rosary, etc.), but I pray you make the effort. If you can find a trusted priest – one who agrees with the Church but understands the reality of human life, temptation, sin, mercy, compassion – it would probably give you comfort to know that someone in your parish knows your situation.
Does your partner support your choice to be Catholic? It could be even more difficult if your partner is against this.
Even though I left the Church for about 14 years, I made an effort to remain in a relationship with God. It was a long and hard road because I did leave the Church and wander through all kinds of explorations, and well, it was not all good.
You obviously have the gift of faith. Don’t throw that away.
When I was in the midst of an eight-year-long relationship with one woman, I remember one morning spontaneously praying as I was leaving for work. I stopped next to my car and took in the beauty of the early spring morning. And I said, “God, if you’re there, I want to do what you want…well, I want to want what you want. I can’t change the way I am. I don’t even want to change the way that I am. But if my being a lesbian offends you, then you’re going to have to do something about it, because I can’t and won’t.”
Here I am, years later, without a trace of SSA, the mom of a beautiful 12-year-old boy, and dating a very Catholic gentleman – God only knows where that will lead.
Point is, place your relationship with God at the center of your life, regardless of all else, including all advice from all of us. God at the center of your life! God at the center! And remain humble before Him, trusting always in His love and mercy. God at the center of your life!
If you lived in my area, I’d give you a hug and invite you over for coffee. As it is, here’s a cyber hug :hug3: and an assurance of my ongoing prayers!
God bless you!
G
GEddie
Guest
Choosing one (grave) sin over another is equivalent to eating poisoned bread to avoid starvation.
The choice isn’t worth making.
The worthwhile choice would be to repent and ask God for the grace to be Catholic in good standing.
Remember, beyond the black barrier that is death, there are no sexual pleasures or sexual happiness, but the embrace of our LORD more than perfectly makes up for them. And that is true for your partner as well as self.
ICXC NIKA
The choice isn’t worth making.
The worthwhile choice would be to repent and ask God for the grace to be Catholic in good standing.
Remember, beyond the black barrier that is death, there are no sexual pleasures or sexual happiness, but the embrace of our LORD more than perfectly makes up for them. And that is true for your partner as well as self.
ICXC NIKA
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