To BJ, LDS Excommunication, repentance, and 're-baptism'?

[ben_dy]

BJ Colbert:

Excommunication is the first step in repentance if the person wants to come back to the Church. He may go through the steps of repentance and be rebaptized at a later date.

BJ-

I picked this up in the “universal flood” thread and, as it has nothing to do with that topic, I’m hoping you will reply in this thread.

I don’t understand something here. If excommunication in the LDS church is “the first step in repentance” for a grave sin such as adultery (and I’m assuming that adultery is perhaps at least 25% of that amongst LDS members as among other Christian religions in the U.S.) the number of excommunications must be enormous? Is excommunication the only recourse for penance for grave sin for the member of the LDS church?

I’m really quite puzzled, though, by the role of ‘re-baptism’ in repentance. Do LDS members who commit grave sins go through numerous excommunications and ‘re-baptisms’ in a lifetime?

I’m quite puzzled.

Ben

 

[BJ_Colbert]

Excommunication is not the only penance for a grave sin, it is the most serious penance, and only happens if the person being disciplined is completely unrepentant, or if they were so knowlegeable in the gospel that they completely understood the sin they committed and did it purposely. All people who find themselves in danger of excommunication are judged according to their own circumstances.
When someone truely repents of a sin, it means he should never commit that sin again.
Repentance is a long process of showing complete sorrow and remorse for the sin committed, and making compensation for the sin to those who have been injured by the sin. It does not happen overnight with sins such as adultry.
If a person went through this process of repentance and was rebaptized, then repeated this same sin again, it would become more difficult the second time, but I can not say it would be impossible to be forgiven, only God can judge. The process of repentance is so painful emotionally, if a person is truely repentant, it is very rare for the person to want to go through it again. I don’t know anyone personally who has gone through it twice, but there have been a few occasions of such an occurance. I believe one of the witnesses to the Book of Mormon, was excommunicated twice and rebaptized.
In the LDS Church, the Bishop and his counselors hold a Bishop’s court. The accused party(the accuser is usually the spouse) appears and defends himself, or confesses his or her sin, and either is remorseful in the court, or if he is not repentant in court then the court sends a report to The First Presidency in Salt Lake they make the final decision and then the person’s name is removed from the records of the Church, and the excommunicated person is sent a letter from Salt Lake City, Church headquarters.
That is about it, no one would be really repentant if they went through this over and over, so to answer your question. I don’t know of anyone who has done it more than twice maximum, and usually for a different sin than what they were originally excommunicated for. When a person is rebaptized it is usually a period of years before they come back into the Church. Repentance is not something to take lightly, especially with such a grave sin as adultry. I hope this answers your question and does not leave you more confused. BJ

 

[ben_dy]

BJ-

Thanks for your quick reply and detailed explanation - I know the process and frequency no but I can’t imagine the doctrine behind the process! (Although, to be honest, portions of it sound rather like the order of penitents of old.) We - as I’m sure you’re aware - have a Sacrament for the confession of all sin and recourse to repentance and absolution for all sin and ‘excommunication’ comes in several different flavor in accordance with Canon Law.

I find that I am amazed at how ignorant I am of LDS doctrine and practices; my time spent with two very nice missionaries was spent mostly listening and I have to say that if I were not so firm in my faith the LDS presentation of ‘heaven’ was certainly well-presented and could be a very attractive doctrine, I think, for many. The discussions that we did have were most charitable (and they graciously accepted my offer to take them out to dinner) and we parted on good terms, all three secure in the faith that we had held before our discussions but all, I think, a bit more educated in the very basic tenets of the others’ faith.

I’ve now spent over 18 hours in this forum and checking references, etc., on the Internet and I have to surmise that being a Mormon outside of Utah must be similar to being Roman Catholic in the deep south in the 1940-1950’s - a great deal of outright hostility. At this point I’ve no idea where I would place the LDS church in any sort of ‘Christian sect niche’ - I’m not certain that it belongs in any? But I’ll continue to read the messages in this forum because now (retired and outside the Catholic cocoon in which I’ve worked all of my life!) I find that I’m coming in daily contact with all flavors of religions whose doctrines are very, very unfamiliar to me.

Thanks once again,

Ben

 

[BJ_Colbert]

Thank you for your charitable reply. I too appreciate learning about other religions, especially Catholic, because my husband is Catholic and that is why I originally came to this forum.
I did not know the forum discussed LDS and when I read some of the posts and saw how confused some of them were about LDS beliefs, I could not help diving in to defend the faith.
I was eaten alive and spit out, so it was not a smart thing to attempt to have discourse with people who spend a lot of time attempting to disprove the LDS beliefs. I prefer it when I can simply answer a question from the heart and know it is something I know from personal experience and study. So I get in way over my head in some of these discussions. Thank you for giving me the chance to explain my understanding of the excommunication process. Someone else may have a different understanding based on their experience.
BJ

 

[majick275]

Not to be too detail oriented but there are other elements of the process depending on the situation. What BJ states is certainly a correct example of one type of excommunication and some of the circumstances that would bring that about.

I don’t know how deep you wanted to go on this so let me know if you need more detail.

BTW I promise no eating alive or spitting out. (Fully Cooked, chewed and swallowed only )