To insulate oneself or not?

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Flopfoot

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Say if you had the chance to go into a situation which might cause some harm to you, might be a bad influence on you, etc, but by going into this situation you have a chance to do good. What should you do?

An example of this is trying to evangelise people who aren’t Catholics. By going into a discussion with them, they have the chance to try and convince you of what they believe - they might make you lose your faith. Even if you are a strong Catholic, these discussions could still get you down and out because you feel like you’re losing the fight, or you’re becoming angry, or whatever. On the other hand, by going into this discussion, you have the chance to do some good (if you’re successful in evangelising).

I guess for that case, we do need some people to evangelise - but maybe we should leave it to ‘the experts’, as in people who are very strong in their faith, who are able to refute the other person very well, and also who won’t take it personally and feel down if they fail to make a convert. Maybe, other people should not try evangelisation because it will just end up having a negative effect on themselves.

That’s basically the question (not just with evangelisation, but in general). Should we insulate ourselves to protect ourselves from harm and evil influences? Or should be expose ourselves, if it gives us the chance to do good?

On the side for ‘insulation’
  • When we are children, our parents keep us away from negative influences. Parents will also tell their children not to let the negative influences affect them, but even better if they can keep them away from these influences in the first place. Now that we are older, it’s our job to keep ourselves from negative influences. God doesn’t like people doing risky things like driving dangerously - he loves us and would never want us to come to harm. Hence he wants us to protect ourselves from all harm and evil that could influence us or come our way.
  • There may be ways of doing good without allowing for a chance that in doing this, harm could come our way. Eg, giving money to charity is generally pretty safe.
On the side against ‘insulation’
  • Basically, that it’s worth the risk to be able to do good. If Christians aren’t going to do good then who is?
 
First of all. it would help to know what the other person believes before you enter into dialogue with them.

EG when I did crisis pregnancy counselling, I studied what other faiths believed about abortion. When I talked to a Hindu I reminded them what their teaching said etc…

If I am talking to LDS or JWs, I need to know the points where their teaching differs from the Catholic teaching and how to counter their reasoning. The same goes with Protestants.

Secondly, LDS, JW and anti-Catholics who are out to convert know exactly where to attack. They are trained how to lead Catholics out of the Church and you need to learn how they do this and how to counter their arguments BEFORE you try to evangelise.

Do you belong to a Catholic apologetics group? That would be a good place to start. Do they have a Catholic Society on your campus? Maybe you could find a priest who works with young people and get something started.
 
A few points/questions here. Firstly, what is evangelization? Is it something that equates to a fight for what is right?

Is it an apologetics argument to be fought by the bravest of us Catholics with the “right stuff”? Or is it a Spirit inspired act of love with the direct help of God in your words?

Have you been inspired by the Holy Spirit to carry this out? If not is there any chance you might do some real damage verses a happy ending? When someone attacks your faith it is fine with charity to defend it. With regards to leading souls to the Church. I can tell you as a former Protestant that I may have been ‘less then receptive’ 😃 .

The issue of responsibility comes to mind. Are we in a position to do this sort of thing on our own? I would say no, simply because only God can move someone’s heart in this direction. If you feel you may be a victim of your own efforts it may be that you are not supposed to do this. My advice is to pray until this question is answered one way or the other before you do anything.

-D
 
Dear Flopfoot,
I think it is totally dependent on the temperment of the individual. Some people are very bold, and have a gift for courageously reaching out to others. Others need a higher level of peace and tranquility in their lives. Some people are less easily influenced by negativity and others are more easily swayed.

Therefore, each person has different gifts and different weaknesses, so there is no one approach that is suitable for all.
 
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Flopfoot:
Say if you had the chance to go into a situation which might cause some harm to you, might be a bad influence on you, etc, but by going into this situation you have a chance to do good. What should you do?
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I think for many people, situations that are ‘risky’ are just part of living.

For example, when it comes to evangelizing, most of us have non-Catholic friends, work associates, family members, neighbors, etc. Sooner or late we are going to find ourselves in a situation where we need to explain why we do something differently. And we can do that without being confrontational and trying to convert the other party. (Conversion is the Holy Spirit’s job anyways, not ours.)
 
The thing is that for me, I am pretty ‘fragile’ - seem to be affected negatively by just about everything. Especially things that get me down, because I used to have quite a big problem with depression, and it still comes back here and there. But also, I can remember times, a while back, when I did some bible studies with protestants and they tried to change my beliefs. It drove me nuts and I even stopped reading the bible because they had been using it to try and convert me. I shouldn’t be worried about reading the letters of St Paul - after all, he was a Catholic - but I am.

So yea, lately I’ve been mostly living under a rock - just going to uni and to church and sometimes visting relatives, and the rest of the time just avoiding everyone and everything (well… I go on CAF, but this place is fairly safe even though there are a few protestants, and it’s not the same as face to face meeting people). I used to be part of a lot of Christian groups and things, trying to have a positive impact on people around me. But I would take it personally when I couldn’t seem to make people care more about God, and it would get me down. Or I would find that I didn’t fit in well, and start feeling lonely. Even those christian groups didn’t seem a safe place to be and so I quit, so I could better protect myself from feeling down. And I also started avoiding discussions about religion with anyone - if one would start I would just say, “well we believe different things, so never mind.” This is not only with non-Catholics but even with Catholics who ‘don’t believe everything the church says’. I like living under a rock but the only thing I’m worried about is that I can’t do a great deal of good for others from under this rock, whereas if I go out into the world a bit I can start trying to help.

Edit - I was thinking the other day about how Jesus used to say ‘Don’t be afraid.’ I was thinking, how does He expect us to do this? There’s plenty to be scared of out there. The devil keeps on thinking up new ways to get me down, I can’t anticipate and fight them all. The best I can do is hide. And I guess that God doesn’t mind us running and hiding from the devil - after all, He did tell us to ‘fear the one who can destory both the body and the soul in hell’. He wouldn’t want us to take on an opponent if it’s just gonna get us destroyed, surely?
 
Dear friend

If you talk about your faith be prepared for it to be attacked.

My faith has been battered by such attacks, but it has never floundered under it. That’s God’s grace. Faith is a gift, a supernatural gift from God. Therefore we cannot gift it to another person nor can they take it away.

Evangelisation for me is not to go from one place to another and from one person to another trying to convert them with words as a mission I have decided for myself. That is not evangelisation. People often say, ‘oh this Saint converted many souls’ that is just not true, that Saint did not convert a single soul, God by His grace allowed the instrument of such a Saint to be an example by the power of the Holy Spirit and God converted the souls.

If faith is dying out, if vocations to the Priesthood are dying out, then we are not praying for it enough, nor doing God’s Will, nor are we believing it is possible for God to do, nor are we asking in the right way. Prayer is our whole life.

The best evangelisation anyone can do is to live their faith so that from sunrise to sunset their life is a continuous prayer before the Father and to do that with conviction. To live it without apologising for it, to live it with all of their heart, to not hide their faith, to not be ashamed of it, but to freely admit their faith. If someone doesn’t agree with your faith, their is no point arguing over it with them, just state the truth and agree to differ, the truth speaks for itself and they may disagree with you today, but in many years, by God’s grace will agree with you in the future. Above all in loving all people faith speaks for itself and no-one need be a well-versed apologist when they have the law of Love in their hearts, Love being above the law, the law and the Spirit of the law. This is what all of the Saints have done with great humility.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
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Flopfoot:
…lately I’ve been mostly living under a rock …
…Jesus used to say ‘Don’t be afraid.’ I was thinking, how does He expect us to do this? …The devil keeps on thinking up new ways to get me down, I can’t anticipate and fight them all. The best I can do is hide. And I guess that God doesn’t mind us running and hiding from the devil - after all, He did tell us to ‘fear the one who can destory both the body and the soul in hell’. He wouldn’t want us to take on an opponent if it’s just gonna get us destroyed, surely?
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We can’t really outrun or hide from the devil. The only way to fight him is by running to God. Trusting in God is how we overcome fear and live as God desires. Now the big question is what does God desire for us.

God calls people to different ways of living out our faith.
Circumstances right now (sometimes also called Divine Providence) limit my contact to few people beyond my immediate family. Just because I’m “insulated” from much of the world, doesn’t mean the devil doesn’t try various ways to enter my little castle.

God calls some to a cloistered life, where they spend most of the day praying without encountering many others (and most whom they encounter share their faith.) He evangelizes many through souls such as St. Therese. They are locked behind walls, but God isn’t. He can still use their lives to evangelize the world.

The desert saints were also called to lives of isolation. They felt called to live austere, simple lives in caves and such in the wilderness. Many of those holy people who tried to isolate themselves found that God brought people to them. The desert saints, evanglizing from their caves, inspired many to live holy lives.

The importance is to discern what God wants. God has a specific plan for you that will match with all the talents, desires and abilities He wants to give you. Whether you are called to insulate yourself or not is a question that you must ask God in prayer. But do not isolate yourself only out of fear of the devil, because the devils knows what rock you’re under. You will find shelter and protection by humbly trusting entirely in God. Let Him be your Rock.
 
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Flopfoot:
Say if you had the chance to go into a situation which might cause some harm to you, might be a bad influence on you, etc, but by going into this situation you have a chance to do good. What should you do?

An example of this is trying to evangelise people who aren’t Catholics. By going into a discussion with them, they have the chance to try and convince you of what they believe - **they might make you lose your faith. Even if you are a strong ** Catholic, these discussions could still get you down and out because you feel like you’re losing the fight, or you’re becoming angry, or whatever. On the other hand, by going into this discussion, you have the chance to do some good (if you’re successful in evangelising).

I guess for that case, we do need some people to evangelise - but maybe we should leave it to ‘the experts’, as in people who are very strong in their faith, who are able to refute the other person very well, and also who won’t take it personally and feel down if they fail to make a convert. Maybe, other people should not try evangelisation because it will just end up having a negative effect on themselves.

That’s basically the question (not just with evangelisation, but in general). Should we insulate ourselves to protect ourselves from harm and evil influences? Or should be expose ourselves, if it gives us the chance to do good?

On the side for ‘insulation’
  • When we are children, our parents keep us away from negative influences. Parents will also tell their children not to let the negative influences affect them, but even better if they can keep them away from these influences in the first place. Now that we are older, it’s our job to keep ourselves from negative influences. God doesn’t like people doing risky things like driving dangerously - he loves us and would never want us to come to harm. Hence he wants us to protect ourselves from all harm and evil that could influence us or come our way.
  • There may be ways of doing good without allowing for a chance that in doing this, harm could come our way. Eg, giving money to charity is generally pretty safe.
On the side against ‘insulation’
  • Basically, that it’s worth the risk to be able to do good. If Christians aren’t going to do good then who is?
Click to expand...
Someone with strong Catholic faith will never lose it or even be shaken.
 
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thistle:
Someone with strong Catholic faith will never lose it or even be shaken.
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Notice the full stop / period I put between those 2 statements that you highlighted in bold. Yes, I agree that if you are a strong Catholic then you won’t lose your faith. However, what I was saying there was that even if you don’t lose your faith then the discussions can still have a (different) detrimental effect on you - because you might take it too hard on yourself if you fail to convert them and then think of yourself as a failure. Happens to me sometimes.

To gardenswithkids - Thanks, I can kind of get what you’re saying. Part of the reason why I was posting this thread was because a priest suggested to me that not trying harder to get out there and do some good, and also concentrating on doing more spiritual things like praying more, was going to make me too self centred and more inclined to sin.
If the devil would just leave me alone then it would all be a lot easier.
 
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Flopfoot:
Notice the full stop / period I put between those 2 statements that you highlighted in bold. Yes, I agree that if you are a strong Catholic then you won’t lose your faith. However, what I was saying there was that even if you don’t lose your faith then the discussions can still have a (different) detrimental effect on you - because you might take it too hard on yourself if you fail to convert them and then think of yourself as a failure. Happens to me sometimes.

To gardenswithkids - Thanks, I can kind of get what you’re saying. Part of the reason why I was posting this thread was because a priest suggested to me that not trying harder to get out there and do some good, and also concentrating on doing more spiritual things like praying more, was going to make me too self centred and more inclined to sin.
If the devil would just leave me alone then it would all be a lot easier.
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Use the weapon that Padre Pio used against the devil and his demons - The Rosary.
 
If someone is feeling vulnerable, I don’t think it’s right to apply a one shoe fits all solution. Everyone one of us is called to different vocations and callings. Read the Bible, and it talks about the different spriitual gifts. Some are called to lives of service, feeding the poor, caring for the sick etc. Others are called to boldly declare the gospel. Some people are very shy and not good at speaking. Others have the gift of speech, and are natural salesmen. So please I ask you to refrain from expectations of your brothers and sisters to fit into a preset mold. Lets all pray for guidence from the Holy Spirit to move us in how we should go.
 
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thistle:
Use the weapon that Padre Pio used against the devil and his demons - The Rosary.
Click to expand...
I have taken up saying the rosary daily before, never lasted long. I’m now trying again, so far said it for 4 days straight. I was inspired by this quote -

** “Never will anyone who says his Rosary every day be led astray. This is a statement that I would gladly sign with my blood.” St. Louis de Montfort**
 
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Flopfoot:
I have taken up saying the rosary daily before, never lasted long. I’m now trying again, so far said it for 4 days straight. I was inspired by this quote -

** “Never will anyone who says his Rosary every day be led astray. This is a statement that I would gladly sign with my blood.” St. Louis de Montfort**
Click to expand...
I Pray all 20 decades every day. The Rosary is powerful. I also enrolled in the Rosary Confraternity run by the Dominicans. Its free and really comforting to know you have hundreds of thousands of other members praying for you every day during life and after death.
Sorry to other posters for digressing from the thread subject but I feel really strongly about the Rosary.
 
That’s okay, I was the one who posted a reply and was digressing from my own thread. Ulp, 20 decades! But I guess everyone’s got at least a spare hour in their day. I say the mysteries of the day, I’ve been praying the rosary on the train on the way to uni. Now what am I gonna do when semester finishes tomorrow?

Anyway, that’s a question for another thread. Back to this thread (-:
 
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Flopfoot:
To gardenswithkids - Thanks, I can kind of get what you’re saying. Part of the reason why I was posting this thread was because a priest suggested to me that not trying harder to get out there and do some good, and also concentrating on doing more spiritual things like praying more, was going to make me too self centred and more inclined to sin.
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What I tried to say earlier to answer the thread question: some people are called to live fairly isolated lives, (that might be only temporary.) If God does call a person to isolation, He can still use that person for evangelizing. It is important to discern where and how God wants us to serve. I didn’t write it earlier, but I will now: few people are called to live out their Christian life in isolation; most people are called to life in the greater community.

As your priest specifically advised you to get out and do other Christian service, his advice may help you discern that God wants you involved in the world and not insulated from it. I suspect the priest meant an insulated life might make one self-centered, but I doubt he meant that more prayer would make you more inclined to sin or self-centeredness, (especially if you are praying for others.) You can and should pray, no matter what type of life God calls you to. I’d suggest that you pray that God shows you where He wants you to serve Him. I’ll pray for you too.
 
I can only respond with my personal experience.

I have spoken out for decades. And I get my head kicked in all the time. It goes with the territory. After decades of this, once in a while I actually do some good.

I am surrounded by maybe 4000 books. All non-fiction reference type books. I pursued and got two masters degrees.

I pray CONSTANTLY…

Each of us has a purpose. The “mission” may vary from time to time or be “constant”. The “mission” may require preparation and it may take years of preparation for just a one minute interaction with another person. We have no way of knowing.

I don’t know if this story helps or not… One day in Brooklyn, New York, a young Jewish boy was walking on his way home from school. He was a very studious boy. And minding his own business… Suddenly he heard a cry for help and looked up and saw a young girl - a total stranger - being abducted, pulled into a van. The boy dropped his books and ran after the van and jumped onto the back bumper, holding on to a door hinge with his finger tips. He yelled for help and for the police. Somehow, the police intervened and stopped the van and rescued the abducted girl and arrested the kidnappers.

However, during the chase, the boy was thrown off the van and was killed when he hit the pavement.

I heard the boy’s father being interviewed on the radio. The father said he believed that the son’s whole purpose in life was to be there to save that girl’s life…
 
Sorry, I didn’t word my last post very well - basically the priest was advising me to do spiritual things like praying, not advising against it. He gave me 2 bits of advice - go do Christian service, and go do spiritual things, and both of these will make it easier for me to avoid sin.

An incidental effect of me living under a rock and insulating myself from the world (although not all that important I suppose), is that it doesn’t give me much of a chance of looking into the vocation of marriage, because I rarely try to form a relationship with a girl coz it hurts too much getting rejected. Last time I tried to begin a relationship with someone I just ended up becoming upset for a week. I want to avoid these feelings, but I don’t really want to cut off the possibility that God may be calling me to that vocation.
 
You are right now 20 years old. It may well be that your “primary mission” right now is to get an education. It may be the highest priority that has been laid out for you. More important than meeting the “right girl”.

It may be [and I am deliberately choosing my words carefully – part of a legacy of getting my head kicked in too often owing to speaking “rashly” ]… it MAY BE that you need to get a certain education in order to get a certain kind of job in order to earn enough money to support a family of a certain size.

What I will not do or say is that “you should do this or do that”.

Your life is and will be unique to you.

Your “education”, both formal / university as well as informal “school of hard knocks” – life ], may have to be acquired over a variety of “methods” or a variety of “venues”.

I think the priest had some sound suggestions. And just because you volunteer at one place and get rejected, or try to connect with one young lady or another and it doesn’t work out, doesn’t mean anything, except that you are learning how to relate to people. We all need to learn how to size up or relate to other people. It has nothing to do with being judgemental, but rather it has to do with learning what makes other people tick. And the only way, unfortunately, to learn all this is to get your head kicked in a few (hundred) times. You are already started on that path.

It sounds to me as if God IS, in fact, guiding you.

Acquiring pain, is unfortunately, part of the education process.

[If you are an athlete, you will from time to time get injured. It goes with the territory.]

Not every “connection” that “we would like to make” would be good for us for an infinite number of reasons. It could be personality; it could be some family issue. It could be simply that the timing just isn’t right… because you… or the other person… still has to finish getting their “education” … which by the way is never “finished”. It could be the other person or the place you wanted to work just isn’t right for you.

[There was a joke for a while - at a re-employment support group - that any company that didn’t hire me went bankrupt… I needed a job – I was in my forties… and for a LONG time NOTHING HAPPENED. But in retrospect (easy for me to say now, in perfectly clear hindsight), that time that I spent wandering around seemingly in Limbo was preparing me for my “next assignment”. It got to the point that my wife and I used to say (and still say it), that maybe there is somebody I have to meet.]

Just hang in there. Enjoy the day. Pray always…constantly. Study and learn new prayers; make up your own. Visualize Jesus walking along beside you, as your very own best friend. Talk to your Guardian Angel… and listen… you might be pleasantly surprised. Keep your eyes open, constantly, and observe what other people are doing, what they are saying, how they speak, how they walk, how they mount and dismount curbs, how they relate to one another. People sin and people do virtuous things; observe those.

And as you walk down the hallway of life, when a door opens, look in and see if maybe that door is for the moment the right door to enter into.

And if you want to email me, my address is on my profile.
 
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