To proselytize or not... that is the question

[jphod]

How do the Orthodox churches see the Catholic church? I heard in the past of Orthodox concerns over alleged proselytism in Russia. Why “complain” to the Vatican? It seems that the Orthodox must view the Catholic church in some other light to expect some response. I wouldn’t expect the same requests be made to other Christian denominations especially since they do not share much commonality with much of Orthodox or Catholic teaching
I would feel foolish asking the pastor of the fundamentalist church across from me to stop proselytizing Catholics. we have so little in common and he would politely laugh at me. (The problem is failure to educate lay Catholics … if they understood their faith they would not so easily be drawn away.)
Was it wrong that Catholics there felt they should be able to recover property that was taken from them. Is the Russian Orthodox church unfair in this respect, are they using the catholic desire for unification with the orthodox churches against them to hold on to this property and as a mean to hold on to those who would consider converting to the Catholic church.
Why if the Orthodox and Catholic are no longer in union would it be wrong for Catholics Eastern or Latin to seek the conversion of those who are unchurched in these areas. If as some have implied … to the Orthodox … Catholics are heretics (ie the filioque). Why, then, should the Catholic Church even give a hearing to the complaints.
Again it could mean the Orthodox views the Catholic church differently than other denominations or it simply means they are just manipulating the Catholic churchmen to avoid losses in their numbers. I personally hold to the former rather than the latter . What are your thoughts?
P.S. I have tried to phrase this in as non-adversarial a way as possible I am interested in your opinions … so for give my poor wordinmg. I am really hoping for a charitable exchange.

 

[Fr_Ambrose]

jphod:

Again it could mean the Orthodox views the Catholic church differently than other denominations or it simply means they are just manipulating the Catholic churchmen to avoid losses in their numbers. I personally hold to the former rather than the latter . What are your thoughts?

I honestly do not know. The Orthodox see the Catholic outreach and ecumenical contacts as a bit of windowdressing and they believe that the real strategy takes place back home in the Vatican where the PR experts are busy drinking coffee and holding think tanks on how to bring the Orthodox into submission to the Supreme Pontiff.

Many will be familiar with the Russian Archbishop of London Metropolitan Anthony Bloom and his spiritual writings. This is what he has this to say in a 1997 report to the Russian Synod:

"It is time we realised that Rome is only interested in extinguishing Orthodoxy. Theological encounters and ‘accords’ on the basis of texts lead us up a blind alley, for behind them there looms a firm resolve of the Vatican to swallow up the Orthodox Church."
His words are all the more remarkable because he was a very active participant in the ecumenical dialogue between the Orthodox and Catholics for many decades.

The reference for this is:
Metr. Anthony of Sourozh, SOUROZH (the diocesan magazine of the Russian Diocese in Great Britain) 69 (August 1997), 17-22.

 

[StMarkEofE]

I was under the impression that it was Pope John Paul II who wanted a continued, undivided dialogue with the Moscow Patriarch which included some stipulations, one of which was for the Roman Catholics to refraim from evangelizing in Russia. This the Pope agreed to and I think it is continued under Benedict. Now if all communications are broken off for good then it is every man for himself. That is, full blown evangelization efforts on the part of Rome in Russia, and a counter movement on the part of the Moscow Patriarch to thwart any effort to do this evangelization.

StMarkEofE

 

[jphod]

interested in extinguishing Orthodoxy. Theological encounters and ‘accords’ on the basis of texts lead us up a blind alley, for behind them there looms a firm resolve of the Vatican to swallow up the Orthodox Church."

I think in all things mutual distrust generally thwarts even honest heartfelt intentions.
Personally i don’t know if I can trust you especially after reading in another thread that you are one of those long hair hippie types. I did not know you were a monk. Are you indeed an ordained Orthodox priest? This may be a strange question but a friend of mine is a deacon in an Eastern rite Catholic church and he is referred to as Father Deacon or sometimes just Father yet though ordained is not a priest.

 

[Fr_Ambrose]

jphod:

I think in all things mutual distrust generally thwarts even honest heartfelt intentions.
Personally i don’t know if I can trust you especially after reading in another thread that you are one of those long hair hippie types. I did not know you were a monk. Are you indeed an ordained Orthodox priest? This may be a strange question but a friend of mine is a deacon in an Eastern rite Catholic church and he is referred to as Father Deacon or sometimes just Father yet though ordained is not a priest.

Well, there’s no certainty that I have not grabbed the real Hieromonk Ambrose’s identity!

But his bona fides are on the web…

1)The Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia
Directory of Parishes and Clergy
directory.sjkp.org/

1. Even a photograph of the poor old curmudgeon on the Yahoo! site
   profiles.yahoo.com/maincin

 

[Fr_Ambrose]

jphod:

Personally i don’t know if I can trust you especially after reading in another thread that you are one of those long hair hippie types.

Really, I’m not. I grew up and went to university in the 60s when the world was going through the hippie era. But I always had my nose in my books, kept my hair short back and sides and never touched a marijuana cigarette. I have the long hair only because I am a monk and it is part of being a monk (or nun.)

 

[JOHNYJ]

St.MarkEofE
A light Bulb goes on ! Pope John Paul II in an effort to get along with the Russian Orthodox church imposed restrictions on the Catholic church in Russia,on his own initiative.

!.Catholic religious were not to proselytise among the Orthodox
2.Catholic diocese were not to use Russian cities names
3.The Russian Rite Catholic church was impeded from operating in Russia
For over 10 years JPII tried to negotiate official agreements with the MPT.All he got for its eforts was hostility and trouble.
Well, our Holy Father John Paul II has gone to his reward .In accordance with Catholic tradition all instructions issued personaly by the Pope are dissolved,unless. The new Pope restores them.All bets are off.

 

[StMarkEofE]

JOHNYJ:

St.MarkEofE
Well, our Holy Father John Paul II has gone to his reward .In accordance with Catholic tradition all instructions issued personaly by the Pope are dissolved,unless. The new Pope restores them.All bets are off.

Pope Benedict I believe will continue in the footsteps of JPII. This is only my opinion but it is the tradition for the succeeding pope to continue the works of the previous pope unless conditions prevent him from doing so. I would guess that Pope Benedict is presently in communications and in dialogue with the MP as we speak. Whether or not anything comes of it is another matter.

StMarkEofE

 

[Topher]

I am just curious. What is wrong with us trying to evangelize eachother. Each side believes that the other side is in error, and so conscience should compel us to try to bring eachother out of error and into the truth. I would not be offended if and EO christian tried to convert me. I would not convert, but I would not be offended.

 

[jphod]

Topher:

I am just curious. What is wrong with us trying to evangelize eachother. Each side believes that the other side is in error, and so conscience should compel us to try to bring eachother out of error and into the truth. I would not be offended if and EO christian tried to convert me. I would not convert, but I would not be offended.

I’m often evangelized but I am not offended because if they truly believe what they believe it would be uncharitable for them not to. I’d be insulted if they didn’t. As long as there approach is charitable! Uncharitable evangelizers rarely accomplish there goal.
I have never been evangelized by someone who was Orhtodox… before I would have thought it was odd because I never thought there was so much difference between Orthodox and Catholics. Also, there isn’t a great presence of Orthodox where i live and evangelizing doesn’t seem to be there thing. Of course they have a very strong ethnic character here which might be part of the reason. Of course there is no shortage of uncharitable Fundamentalist evangelizers around.
In theory when one is evangelized it is an opportunity to evangelize the evangelizers. Often they really know little about what the Catholic church teaches. In fact if you mention Eastern Catholic churches and Orthodox Churches some don’t even have a clue what you are talking about. (believe me it is truly remarkable to find someone who actually seems to know less than i do.)