T
tonyrey
Guest
If you don’t believe in coincidences you believe God is directly responsible for the natural disasters which maim, blind, paralyse and kill thousands of people indiscrimately…
- Status
4
4Horsemen
Guest
Certainly, we can see the natural laws of science, the laws of chance or probability, and various social/anthropological constructs at work in our world, but those who see the Divine Will present in every situation and in every moment and in every human being that ever was created know that it is God working His will in every act and potency. The words of the saints seem to acknowledge God’s role. Stories in the Bible confirm it.
When Jesus mentioned the Tower of Siloam falling on whomever was unfortunate enough to be in the way, He wasn’t saying that God had nothing to do with it. He just made the point that those people were no more or no less guilty than anybody else.
The Bible tells the story of Job, who fell from the height of fortune to the depths of poverty. But Job says, “The Lord gave and the Lord hath taken away. As it hath pleased the Lord, so is it done.” He doesn’t say, it was the devil who took all away, but the Lord.
The example of Joseph is instructive as well. Joseph saw God’s will in the wickedness of his brothers, but attributed it to God’s providence. He says, “God sent me before you into Egypet to save life. . . to preserve a remnant for you in the land and to deliver you.” He tells his brothers that it wasn’t them, but God, who sent him to be a ruler over all Egypt.
Jesus, Himself, says, “Shall I not drink the cup that the Father has given me?”
From all eternity, God knew our choices, both good and bad, and He continuously works through them for all of His children. If we make our will in conformity with the Divine Will, we are on the road to perfection. That is our purpose in life.
When Jesus mentioned the Tower of Siloam falling on whomever was unfortunate enough to be in the way, He wasn’t saying that God had nothing to do with it. He just made the point that those people were no more or no less guilty than anybody else.
The Bible tells the story of Job, who fell from the height of fortune to the depths of poverty. But Job says, “The Lord gave and the Lord hath taken away. As it hath pleased the Lord, so is it done.” He doesn’t say, it was the devil who took all away, but the Lord.
The example of Joseph is instructive as well. Joseph saw God’s will in the wickedness of his brothers, but attributed it to God’s providence. He says, “God sent me before you into Egypet to save life. . . to preserve a remnant for you in the land and to deliver you.” He tells his brothers that it wasn’t them, but God, who sent him to be a ruler over all Egypt.
Jesus, Himself, says, “Shall I not drink the cup that the Father has given me?”
From all eternity, God knew our choices, both good and bad, and He continuously works through them for all of His children. If we make our will in conformity with the Divine Will, we are on the road to perfection. That is our purpose in life.
J
Jvrlns
Guest
Tonyrey, do you believe that God is omniscient and created the universe? Couldn’t have God made a different set of Adam and Eve who wouldn’t have fallen into temptation and eaten from the apple? I don’t think God goes out of His way to produce a natural disaster or by direct intervention tampers with the brakes of a bus and thus causing the bus to crash killing everybody on it, but He certainly is the first cause of the universe He created knowing every single accident and natural disaster that would happen in it. Do you believe God could have created a perfect universe in which nothing bad ever happened? Why didn’t He? And no, I don’t believe in coincidences, I believe in Divine Providence.
T
tonyrey
Guest
Yes!
If He gave them free will they would be able to choose whether or not to do so.
God could have created a perfect universe in which nothing bad ever happened but its inhabitants would be zombies without free will and the laws of nature would be replaced by countless divine fiats which would make a rational existence impossible!
I believe in Divine Providence within which coincidences occur!
J
Jvrlns
Guest
Agreed, but God is omnicient and omnipotent, remember? He still could have created the exact pair that would have chosen not to desobey Him.
But the very word providence implies intent. Divine Providence doesn’t undermine free will, but I don’t see how, in the case of an omnicient and omnipotent being, it leaves any room for chance. Help me understand what you mean. Can you PROVIDE
an example of a hypothetical situation in which chance happens whithin Divine Providence?
T
tonyrey
Guest
J
Jvrlns
Guest
I’m not talking about zombies here, I’m talking about God creating a pair of human beings with free will who by their own decision would have chosen not to eat from the tree of life.
T
tonyrey
Guest
That amounts to making their decision for them and not leaving them free to make it themselves.
It seems clear enough to me. It’s equivalent to putting a sign in the sky:
“Don’t worry! I’m protecting you from harm.”
J
Jvrlns
Guest
I guess we’re talking past each other. Bye:wave:That amounts to making their decision for them and not leaving them free to make it themselves.
It seems clear enough to me. It’s equivalent to putting a sign in the sky:
“Don’t worry! I’m protecting you from harm.”
T
tonyrey
Guest
To be more accurate I’ve been talking to you and you have ignored what I have said!
J
Jvrlns
Guest
No tonyrey, I just think that our conversation is leading nowhere. I respect your opinion. I prefer to discuss more important matters in other threats, maybe we’ll see each other there. God bless you!:hug3:To be more accurate I’ve been talking to you and you have ignored what I have said!
T
tonyrey
Guest
No hard feelings! God’s love for us puts everything else in perspective. :grouphug:
God bless you.
- Status