To what extent should we think good of bad people?

[fakename]

To what extent should we think good things about bad people’s good qualities? Say, I’m confronted with hitler -should I like what good there is in him, or is the evil bad enough to despise him? Or with a satanist who kills babies -are we too like what is good in him and dislike the bad or are we to shun him and his works entirely?

 

[GratefulFred]

Hate the sin, but love the sinner. A classic tenent of being Christian.

The discernment, I think, is how is love to be defined when the sinner has commited unspeakable atrocities? How should we love the worse of the worst?

Forgive and forget? Allow him back into fold and say, “That’s OK, Adolf, we know you meant well and will do well in the future. Here have a brockwurst.”

Not a chance.

But are we to pray that God condemn him to Hell presuming he is still alive?

I, for one, cannot pray for anyone to go to Hell.

I think to love properly, we are to pray that the despicable one has a change of heart, that somehow he comes to see the error of his ways and seek forgiveness from mankind and from God. The only unforgivable sin is rejection of God.

Meanwhile, there are lives to protect. The *** has to be stopped as quickly as possible. Trying to consider something good about the worse of the worst is foolhardy. IMO.

 

[StrawberryJam]

To what extent should we think good things about bad people’s good qualities? Say, I’m confronted with hitler -should I like what good there is in him, or is the evil bad enough to despise him? Or with a satanist who kills babies -are we too like what is good in him and dislike the bad or are we to shun him and his works entirely?

Well, there is a woman I know that is close to 70 and sits alone and no one ever shakes her hand at the kiss of peace. I talked to her a few times at the cookie and coffee thing after. She blurted out that many years ago she had cheated on her husband, divorced him left him and the 4 children to run off with another man. She came to her senses, remarried her husband and still to this day no one in her family wants to eat her pies or cakes she was known for. None of their mutual friends prior to the divorce want anything to do with her. None of them spoke to her at her husbands funeral.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

To what extent should we think good things about bad people’s good qualities? Say, I’m confronted with hitler -should I like what good there is in him, or is the evil bad enough to despise him? Or with a satanist who kills babies -are we too like what is good in him and dislike the bad or are we to shun him and his works entirely?

If you were confronted by a hitler or a satanist who kills babies, I think you would have other issues to deal with besides “Should I look for his good qualities”. But if you want to really provoke your conscience, just ask yourself “What does Jesus hope for this person?” Or “If I ever fall into sin as bad as that person, would I want Jesus to withdraw from me all hope of redemption?”

Of course we are not Jesus. We try to be, but we fall woefully short. If we acted too accepting of an evil person’s behavior, it is quite possible that we could be corrupted too. So for your own safety, it would be prudent to avoid hanging out with such a person, insofar as such contact might be dangerous to your own soul.

But looking at the question more realistically, how many of us come into contact with a hitler or a satanic baby killer? The much more common scenario is that we see people who we are tempted to look down on - people who made some bad choices in life, or people for whom life has been unkind. It is easy to say, like the Pharisee, “Thank God I am not like one of these sinners!”. It is these fallen people that form the biggest challenge to see in them the image of God. So maybe a more relevant question to ask instead of your question would be “To what extent should we look for God in the alcoholics, the prostitutes, the thieves, and the cheats?”

 

[Barbkw]

Conversion is obedience training - a turning toward the Trinity and an acceptance of His will for us. It requires continual work from us, to break apart and release from the bonds of self destructive and compulsive behaviors and attitudes.

“Give me chastity and continence, but not yet.” Confessions of St. Augustine of Hippo

I mentally imagine every “bad” attitude and behavior being layed out on rows and rows of shelves with attached supply bins. Every shade and every tint of “bad” - individually wrapped for display.

Everyone unfortuneatly, volunteers to pick up a basket and walk through the warehouse, picking and choicing “bad” to their soul’s destruction. Many people require extraordinary outside measures before they recognize Evil - and stop embracing it.

 

[Nanabelle]

I believe even Hitler loved and cared gore his dogs… That’s what someone I know always says… What about people that treat you fairly well, help you out, but… Have acquaintances and dealings that are not, Godly … For lack of a better word. People that you would never want to cross… Then what?

 

[StrawberryJam]

I believe even Hitler loved and cared gore his dogs… That’s what someone I know always says… What about people that treat you fairly well, help you out, but… Have acquaintances and dealings that are not, Godly … For lack of a better word. People that you would never want to cross… Then what?

I’m not sure if it was a Freudian slip on your part to use the word gore when speaking of Hitler caring about dogs or if you meant to type for.

I live in Chicago, I think I know a few people like you are trying to describe. What do you mean by then what?

What?

 

[Nanabelle]

It was only a hypothetical question…*

I was wondering if someone had a friend or acquaintances that , for the sake of argument, let’s say doesn’t treat others kindly or shows no mercy… But… Treats the friend or acquaintance well enough and causes them no harm and maybe even treats them very well- as long as there is an understanding and respect of how things are … Trust in a friendship , etc. What then? Meaning if you were the only good or religious person they had much interaction with and conversation- wouldn’t you be obliged to remain friends? Or… What if you wanted to remain friends? Jesus spent time with many less savory people…*

 

[StrawberryJam]

It was only a hypothetical question…*

I was wondering if someone had a friend or acquaintances that , for the sake of argument, let’s say doesn’t treat others kindly or shows no mercy… But… Treats the friend or acquaintance well enough and causes them no harm and maybe even treats them very well- as long as there is an understanding and respect of how things are … Trust in a friendship , etc. What then? Meaning if you were the only good or religious person they had much interaction with and conversation- wouldn’t you be obliged to remain friends? Or… What if you wanted to remain friends? Jesus spent time with many less savory people…*

I can see certain situations for a christian where if they were in fact using that time as friends to show Jesus to that person in their contact it could be good, or at least morally neutral. Depending on the strength of that person’s faith, and dedication to it.
Of course, I can also see situations depending on what in fact this person was doing where it would be morally beneficial for all involved if the person was avoided and given a reason why. There is no black and white answser to your question IMHO.
If this were a struggle for a catholic, and if I were a catholic I would seek my spiritual director. Every catholic should have one. Heck, I even have one. No excuse not to have one. They don’t bite. Really.

 

[Nanabelle]

Thank you for your thoughts.

When you said everyone should have a spiritual leader or director to go to … You said that you even have one. Do you mind if I ask what you meant by that? I noticed on your profile that is says agnostic with Catholic leanings and then you mentioned something about Chicago in an earlier post …

 

[StrawberryJam]

Thank you for your thoughts.

When you said everyone should have a spiritual leader or director to go to … You said that you even have one. Do you mind if I ask what you meant by that? I noticed on your profile that is says agnostic with Catholic leanings and then you mentioned something about Chicago in an earlier post …

I have a catholic priest who has been a priest over 50 years who has spent much time with me during my time of trying to dig in to the catholic faith. Thankfully for me, he goes out of his way to help me through many of my hesitations, and it’s a good thing he has a sense of humor. Doesn’t hurt that we can also share breakfasts here and there and even once in a rare while share his favorite Irish beverage over talks that don’t involve religion at all.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Conversion is obedience training - a turning toward the Trinity and an acceptance of His will for us. It requires continual work from us, to break apart and release from the bonds of self destructive and compulsive behaviors and attitudes.

“Give me chastity and continence, but not yet.” Confessions of St. Augustine of Hippo

I mentally imagine every “bad” attitude and behavior being layed out on rows and rows of shelves with attached supply bins. Every shade and every tint of “bad” - individually wrapped for display.

Everyone unfortuneatly, volunteers to pick up a basket and walk through the warehouse, picking and choicing “bad” to their soul’s destruction. Many people require extraordinary outside measures before they recognize Evil - and stop embracing it.

Christ embraced sinners. Did he pick the wrong baskets to do so?
Does your imagination equal truth?

 

[Newbie2]

Well, there is a woman I know that is close to 70 and sits alone and no one ever shakes her hand at the kiss of peace. I talked to her a few times at the cookie and coffee thing after. She blurted out that many years ago she had cheated on her husband, divorced him left him and the 4 children to run off with another man. She came to her senses, remarried her husband and still to this day no one in her family wants to eat her pies or cakes she was known for. None of their mutual friends prior to the divorce want anything to do with her. None of them spoke to her at her husbands funeral.

Very charitable on your part, , “Wow, really??” on theirs. I can see where they’d have trouble intially with her actions, but she and her husband reconciled…wow…and the rest of the family won’t?

Maybe you can ask her for one of her pies or cakes. You’re doing the Lord’s work, Bro.

I have a catholic priest who has been a priest over 50 years who has spent much time with me during my time of trying to dig in to the catholic faith. Thankfully for me, he goes out of his way to help me through many of my hesitations, and it’s a good thing he has a sense of humor. Doesn’t hurt that we can also share breakfasts here and there and even once in a rare while share his favorite Irish beverage over talks that don’t involve religion at all.

That wouldn’t be the juice of the Barley, would it?

 

[StrawberryJam]

Very charitable on your part, , “Wow, really??” on theirs. I can see where they’d have trouble intially with her actions, but she and her husband reconciled…wow…and the rest of the family won’t?

Maybe you can ask her for one of her pies or cakes. You’re doing the Lord’s work, Bro.

You called it right bro! Next time you join us if you are in Chicago.

That wouldn’t be the juice of the Barley, would it?

Sure would be. Next time you join us if you are in Chicago. More the better.

 

[Edward_H]

Well we shouldn’t think good of what is bad. Bad is never strictly good.

In the face of bad acts and evil people, we can still be serene and even joyful in knowing that God is our Father, and that He will not abandon us. We can and must maintain our supernatural outlook.

We should never excuse or define down evil or bad acts. Never.

We can use those acts as reminders to pray…asking God to convert the bad into good use.

 

[mullenpm]

Suppose you have a neighbor who is a terrible gossip; to the point of making up stories and passing them along. She has done extreme damage to the reputation of some neighbors in our building and has ruined relationships.

Is it so wrong to stay away from this person because she is, in a way, an occasion to sin. One can get so angry at her when she is telling tales you can’t help yourself. I know some Saints say that you should try to live with a difficult person and accept their faults; but we are not all Saints.

Why can’t we just stay away from that troublesome person and avoid the temptation to get angry; when all you want to do is just give her a good smack? :slapfight: