Today I was cornered by some Mormons...

[KathleenGee]

Soren,

Thanks on your observation and explanations why I found myself behooved by the responses of Mormons to what is considered obvious.

 

[soren1]

Mostly bc I think that many Mormons still believe that McConkie actually believed that but took it out as a result of pressure from other church leaders.

The whole thing about Church leaders objecting to McConkie is a total canard. It is true that they gave McConkie flack for the hard rhetoric in the first edition in 1959. It is even true that he published the second edition without their blessing and that it has a disclaimer that the author speaks only for himself, not for the Church. However, as an actual text on Mormon theology, one does not have to consider McConkie’s opinion to be official doctrine as such to recognize that his compilation accurately reflects the content of traditional Mormon doctrine. I am unaware of a single claim McConkie makes that cannot be supported from earlier documents that do have official status. The Mormon’s themselves recognized it at the time, and it became a benchmark for years until its embarrassing clarity of expression started to become an apologetic liability.

Despite this rough beginning, the book received approval after the fact by Pres. Gordon B. Hinckley, and so even if the text itself is McConkie’s private beliefs, Hinckley’s favorable judgment of it is the opinion of a prophet. Further, some of Mormon Doctrine was written by McConkie after he was an apostle. Most people speak only of the first and second editions of the book (1958,1996), but the text that until recently was published as the second edition is actually the third, because it contains McConkie’s revisions following the 1978 Official Declaration. This is very important text for that reason because it is documentary proof that Apostle McConkie held the the priesthood ban was divinely appointed even after the declaration, that he thought the lifting of the ban was theologically consistent with the traditional “descendents of Ham” explanation for the priesthood ban.

 

[Marie5890]

Mostly bc I think that many Mormons still believe that McConkie actually believed that but took it out as a result of pressure from other church leaders.

I remember Bruce R McConkie’s last General Conference address right before he died (I had his sister as a professor at BYU for one of my religion classes). I was struck by how he subtly admitted he had never had a personal appearance of Christ (even as an “apostle” whom are considered “special witnesses” to Christ resurrection by the LDS Church) but that he didn’t mind.

There is this (or at least was when I was LDS) underlying and accepted belief that any one who was a member of the Quorum of 12 Apostles or a member of the 1st Presidency (who of course are also Apostles in the LDS view) had had a personal visitation by the resurrected Christ Himself and that is one of the things that made them “special witnesses” or “apostles”

I dont know if that mythology still exists and it wasn’t to my understanding ever "officially taught as doctrine. But it was a very firm belief of the lay membership.

I remember Elder McConkie’s last address quite clearly. And it stuck with me.

And I remember his sister, Margret Pope, as my professor too.

 

[estesbob]

**Mormon - “As a Catholic, would it be important to you to be able to still be with your relatives even after death?” (or similar). **
.

The answer is:
“if I leave the church he only way I would be able be with my relatives after death is if they were in hell”

 

[Marie5890]

It’s another one of their warped thought processes ideas that only Mormons believe that they are “families are forever”

Of course other Christian traditions believe that. That just don’t believe that you have to be “sealed” in order for that to happen. Living a life worthy of Heaven and God’s mercy makes that happen is the only requirement. No “sealing in temple” required.

That was the first clear thought I had when things started to crumble for me in terms of Mormonism.

Being “sealed by the authority of the priesthood” was the first corrupted doctrine to be tossed from my mind by the Holy Spirit. God’s mercy and love was far more powerful than the Mormon priesthood.

 

[Marie5890]

I should add as a former Mormon, if I were asked about faithful Mormons and why they believe what they believe I would say the following.

Mormons, true blue Mormons, are a very faithful and honorable people who don’t realize that they have devotion to very corrupt doctrines of a man who was anything but honorable (any serious and critical thinking research of Joseph Smith and his early sucessors demonstrates this).

They hold doctrines that are corrupted and never realize how corrupted they are.

The real Joseph Smith compared to the mythological Joseph Smith as presented by the present day LDS church really dont look anything remotely similar.

Keep praying for present day Mormons. Their love for Christ is real. But their understanding of Him is corrupted and they don’t know it.

 

[KathleenGee]

Yes, Marie…I really like your last post…I am making an effort to pray every day for the Mormon people.

I also like you defined and clarified for us those very serious Mormons who take their faith as such.

Yes, I also witnessed a great gap between the image of Joseph Smith on the children’s books at the Deseret Store vs the actual photograph I saw of him…it revealed alot of his character to me…enough said…

 

[PaulDupre]

Haha. Yup, I grew up in Maryland saw that bridge and temple many times. So cool…

So funny, the same “Surrender Dorothy” is wriiten on a bridge near the San Diego, CA temple. It really does look like the Wizard of Oz’s castle.

 

[KathleenGee]

That is the San Diego temple that allegedly baptized John Paul II again, but also made him a member of the Mormon church?

A Mormon here said the church does not see it proper in making people members of Mormonism, just baptizing.

 

[TheExorcist]

That is the San Diego temple that allegedly baptized John Paul II again, but also made him a member of the Mormon church?

A Mormon here said the church does not see it proper in making people members of Mormonism, just baptizing.

No they both baptize and confirm. But they also believe that both of those ordinances can be freely rejected by the party in question.

 

[minkymurph]

Haha. Yup, I grew up in Maryland saw that bridge and temple many times. So cool…

There’s an Elim Church near were I live that looks exactly like a Klu Klux Klan mask. It even had windows that look like the little slits for the eyes. I think the Architect meant it to look like that because there is no way he/she couldn’t have noticed it looked like a Klu Klux Klan mask.