Today's (Jan 8) Mass Readings (Hating your brother / Having to obey Commandments [No OSAS])

  • Thread starter Thread starter distracted
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

distracted

Guest
Thursday (1-8)

1 John 4:19-5:4:


Beloved, we love God because he first loved us. If anyone says, “I love God,” but hates his brother, he is a liar for whoever does not love a brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. This is the commandment we have from him: Whoever loves God must also love his brother. Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is begotten by God and everyone who loves the Father loves also the one begotten by him. In this way we know that we love the children of God when we love God and obey his commandments. For the love of God is this, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome, for whoever is begotten by God conquers the world. And the victory that conquers the world is our faith.

St. Luke 4:14-22:

Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news of him spread throughout the whole region. He taught in their synagogues and was praised by all. He came to Nazareth, where he had grown up, and went according to his custom into the synagogue on the Sabbath day. He stood up to read and was handed a scroll of the prophet Isaiah. He unrolled the scroll and found the passage where it was written: The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to bring glad tidings to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to captives and recovery of sight to he blind, to let the oppressed go free and to proclaim a year acceptable to the Lord. Rolling up the scroll, he handed it back to the attendant and sat down, and the eyes of all in the synagogue looked intently at him. He said to them, “Today this scripture passage is fulfilled in your hearing.” And all spoke highly of him and were amazed at the gracious words that came from his mouth.

*The more scripture i read (or better yet HEAR @ Mass…), the less i understand how anyone can believe in Once Saved Always Saved… :confused: (“Ignorance of the scriptures is ignorance of Christ” as some saint said).

this scripture about not hating our “brother” would SEEM to contradict that other one (st. Luke??) that says Unless we hate our mother, father, sisters, brothers… (etc), we are not worthy of Christ… but it really is not a contradiction. We are to “hate” anything or anyone that is an obstacle to our getting into Heaven… but we are to love everyone, meaning do what we can for them (sometimes that means only praying for them, since we cannot be “unequally yoked with unbelievers”. )

Love is the most mis-used word in the English language… or any other, probably… :rolleyes: *
 
this scripture about not hating our “brother” would SEEM to contradict that other one (st. Luke??) that says Unless we hate our mother, father, sisters, brothers… (etc), we are not worthy of Christ… but it really is not a contradiction. We are to “hate” anything or anyone that is an obstacle to our getting into Heaven… but we are to love everyone, meaning do what we can for them (sometimes that means only praying for them, since we cannot be “unequally yoked with unbelievers”. )
I believe that what Jesus is saying in Luke 14:26 is that we are to love Him above all others. He is not telling us to hate anyone. He is using hyperbole.
 
Thursday (1-8)

1 John 4:19-5:4:


Beloved, we love God because he first loved us. If anyone says, “I love God,” but hates his brother, he is a liar for whoever does not love a brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. This is the commandment we have from him: Whoever loves God must also love his brother. Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is begotten by God and everyone who loves the Father loves also the one begotten by him. In this way we know that we love the children of God when we love God and obey his commandments. For the love of God is this, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome, for whoever is begotten by God conquers the world. And the victory that conquers the world is our faith.

St. Luke 4:14-22:

Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news of him spread throughout the whole region. He taught in their synagogues and was praised by all. He came to Nazareth, where he had grown up, and went according to his custom into the synagogue on the Sabbath day. He stood up to read and was handed a scroll of the prophet Isaiah. He unrolled the scroll and found the passage where it was written: The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to bring glad tidings to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to captives and recovery of sight to he blind, to let the oppressed go free and to proclaim a year acceptable to the Lord. Rolling up the scroll, he handed it back to the attendant and sat down, and the eyes of all in the synagogue looked intently at him. He said to them, “Today this scripture passage is fulfilled in your hearing.” And all spoke highly of him and were amazed at the gracious words that came from his mouth.

*The more scripture i read (or better yet HEAR @ Mass…), the less i understand how anyone can believe in Once Saved Always Saved… :confused: (“Ignorance of the scriptures is ignorance of Christ” as some saint said).

this scripture about not hating our “brother” would SEEM to contradict that other one (st. Luke??) that says Unless we hate our mother, father, sisters, brothers… (etc), we are not worthy of Christ… but it really is not a contradiction. We are to “hate” anything or anyone that is an obstacle to our getting into Heaven… but we are to love everyone, meaning do what we can for them (sometimes that means only praying for them, since we cannot be “unequally yoked with unbelievers”. )

Love is the most mis-used word in the English language… or any other, probably… :rolleyes: *
In all fairness both passages are not about OSAS but about love, which you are quite right. The first reading and the Gospel seems to tie nicely to me. The first is about the love of God – that love should not only be vertical but also horizontal. It is true that if we cannot love our brothers and sisters whom we can see then how can we love God whom we cannot see? We keep God commandment not because we are forced to or are afraid but because out of love for God.

I thought the Gospel reading gives us the example of the love of God in the person of Jesus – who and what he is and what he does. To me the message of today readings is a reminder to up build my faith in Jesus and allows his action to bring salvation to the oppressed, the sick, the imprisoned and the marginalized for me to do the same. My compassion should lies on these for they are the least of his brethrens. I should not only pray for such as those but also should go out and minister to them in any way I can, either personally or corporately.

Amen.
 
I believe that what Jesus is saying in Luke 14:26 is that we are to love Him above all others. He is not telling us to hate anyone. He is using hyperbole.
no, he really did use the word HATE… and through experience i have learned that that is exactly the word He meant to use (though i cannot prove it to anyone who doesn’t want to accept that)…

I have had people accuse me of loving Jesus more than family… well, i stand guilty as charged… and that person doesn’t have anything to do with me today and vice versa because the person couldn’t stand (or understand) that i could put Jesus first…just didn’t know what i know…😦

If i didn’t put Jesus 1st I probably would have run after this person and said whatever… to try to salvage the relatinship… but… well… its a long, complicated story… I still don’t know waht i should have done in that situation… but i don’t want to be unequally yoked w/ unbelievers…

(they normally feel the same way so its usually not a problem)…
 
In all fairness both passages are not about OSAS but about love,
its about Osas because it says that you must obey the Commandments and that if you don’t, you don’t know God… OSASers think that no matter what you do after being saved doesn’t matter because Jesus paid the whole debt (totally unbiblical… but whatever)…
not because we are forced to or are afraid but because out of love for God.
i say whatever works. If a person fears God and keeps the Comandments all his life out of fear, he is going to get to Heaven just as well as the one who did it out of love…

God bless
 
its about Osas because it says that you must obey the Commandments and that if you don’t, you don’t know God… OSASers think that no matter what you do after being saved doesn’t matter because Jesus paid the whole debt (totally unbiblical… but whatever)…

i say whatever works. If a person fears God and keeps the Comandments all his life out of fear, he is going to get to Heaven just as well as the one who did it out of love…

God bless
I’m not a believer in OSAS but this is entirely false. OSAS believers don’t see any consequences of sin if you believe in Christ. Not that you can continue to live a life guided by sin. In that case an OSAS person would not see you as saved.
 
i say whatever works. If a person fears God and keeps the Comandments all his life out of fear, he is going to get to Heaven just as well as the one who did it out of love…

God bless
If you are doing something because of fear of punishment you are not doing it for the right reason. In 1 John 4:18, we are told:
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.
(1 John 4:18 NASB)
Augustine comments on doing something because of fear of punishment.
Thus the end of every commandment is charity, that is, every commandment has love for its aim. But whatever is done either through fear of punishment or from some other carnal motive, and has not for its principle that love which the Spirit of God sheds abroad in the heart, is not done as it ought to be done, however it may appear to men. For this love embraces both the love of God and the love of our neighbor, and “on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets,” we may add the Gospel and the apostles.-Augustine (The Enchiridion, Chapter 121)
newadvent.org/fathers/1302.htm
 
no, he really did use the word HATE… and through experience i have learned that that is exactly the word He meant to use (though i cannot prove it to anyone who doesn’t want to accept that)…

I have had people accuse me of loving Jesus more than family… well, i stand guilty as charged… and that person doesn’t have anything to do with me today and vice versa because the person couldn’t stand (or understand) that i could put Jesus first…just didn’t know what i know…😦

If i didn’t put Jesus 1st I probably would have run after this person and said whatever… to try to salvage the relatinship… but… well… its a long, complicated story… I still don’t know waht i should have done in that situation… but i don’t want to be unequally yoked w/ unbelievers…

(they normally feel the same way so its usually not a problem)…
I do not believe that Jesus wants us to hate anyone. Elsewhere in Luke He tells us to love even our enemies.
"But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.
(Luke 6:27-28 NASB)
"But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men.
(Luke 6:35 NASB)
Jesus does not contradict himself.
 
If you are doing something because of fear of punishment you are not doing it for the right reason. In 1 John 4:18, we are told:

Augustine comments on doing something because of fear of punishment.

newadvent.org/fathers/1302.htm
Thanks for pointing that out and the scriptural references. 👍

Just a thought - if we want to benefit from scripture readings such as these, it’s good to understand this point. The right spirit behind the obedience will lead us a long way towards discovering God and experiencing His love in our lives…
 
If you are doing something because of fear of punishment you are not doing it for the right reason. In 1 John 4:18, we are told:

Augustine comments on doing something because of fear of punishment.

newadvent.org/fathers/1302.htm
but it doesn’t say you will go to Hell if you have imperfect love…

also, one who fears God DOES have love… If you can serve someone you (mostly) fear till the day you die… well, that alone should make God happy… as it were…

also, i sincerely doubt that any Christian in the world serves God solely out of fear (with no love involved)… that is NOT a realistic assumption…
 
I’m not a believer in OSAS but this is entirely false. OSAS believers don’t see any consequences of sin if you believe in Christ. Not that you can continue to live a life guided by sin. In that case an OSAS person would not see you as saved.
no comprendo… :confused:
 
I do not believe that Jesus wants us to hate anyone. Elsewhere in Luke He tells us to love even our enemies.

Jesus does not contradict himself.
i see no contradiction…

we are to HATE when we are faced with a choice between the love of a human being and the love of God… God hates sin… and he will not allow anyone stained by it to enter Heaven… We are to feel the same way… “Be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect”…

Human love is so messed up (selfish… esp romantic love) to the point it shouldn’t even be called love…

not when compared to the sacrificial love of Jesus Christ…
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top