Too many metaphors, parables, symbolisms

[clarkgamble1]

The Scriptures and the Church over the years have used way too many metaphors, parables, symbolisms, and other figurative language examples in trying to make clear things that are fundamentally mysterious and unknowable. The “Rock of Ages” for example may mean something to a serious bible reader but means nothing to the average person. “Bride of Christ” is another one that makes no sense unless some theologian spends a couple of paragraphs trying to explain the statement. Aquinas said “…faith does not derogate from the dignity of reason, rather it enhances it as the telescope enhances the power of the eye… This didn’t make sense many years ago in Theology 101 and it really doesn’t make sense to me today. Sure a telescope enhances the eye’s power, but faith enhancing reason is not a similar example at all. If anything faith seems to be in direct conflict with reason. Serious comments welcomed.

 

[CapitalistCatholic]

Sometimes, simple words cannot convey an idea or feeling. We’ve gotten this far on poetic symbolism and figurative language. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it.

 

[Vico]

The Scriptures and the Church over the years have used way too many metaphors, parables, symbolisms, and other figurative language examples in trying to make clear things that are fundamentally mysterious and unknowable. The “Rock of Ages” for example may mean something to a serious bible reader but means nothing to the average person. “Bride of Christ” is another one that makes no sense unless some theologian spends a couple of paragraphs trying to explain the statement. Aquinas said “…faith does not derogate from the dignity of reason, rather it enhances it as the telescope enhances the power of the eye… This didn’t make sense many years ago in Theology 101 and it really doesn’t make sense to me today. Sure a telescope enhances the eye’s power, but faith enhancing reason is not a similar example at all. If anything faith seems to be in direct conflict with reason. Serious comments welcomed.

Bride of Christ: Revelation 19:7-8

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give glory to him; for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath prepared herself.
8 And it is granted to her that she should clothe herself with fine linen, glittering and white. For the fine linen are the justifications of saints.

 

[Lee1]

If anything faith seems to be in direct conflict with reason.

Our Lord told us as much
Matthew 10:35
“For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.”

We have faith and we have the material world and there will always be conflict in our minds because we are asked to believe for example in the invisible and this conflicts with our rational senses. However just because we don’t all have the means to detect the invisible doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Imo.

 

[clarkgamble1]

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give glory to him; for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath prepared herself.
8 And it is granted to her that she should clothe herself with fine linen, glittering and white. For the fine linen are the justifications of saints.

**

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This is a perfect example of a biblical statement that makes absolutely no sense to a first time reader…until it is given an attempted meaning by some theologian.

 

[Dovekin]

If the reader has made it through the first 18 chapters of Revelation, I doubt that they will be puzzled by this particular image. The theologian can give some context for those who encounter it without the opening chapters, but everyone should be able to grasp the celebration and joy that accompanies weddings.

Can it be misunderstood? Yes. But so can the clear precise statements we encounter. It comes down to how we understand, not the clarity of the statement itself.

 

[Vico]

…
This is a perfect example of a biblical statement that makes absolutely no sense to a first time reader…until it is given an attempted meaning by some theologian.

You do have to know two things:

1. The quote followed on: “6 whereupon I heard, as it seemed, the noise of a great multitude, like the noise of water in flood, or the noise of deep thunder, as they cried out, Alleluia, the Lord our God, the Almighty, has claimed his kingdom;”
2. Kings cement their rule to a new kingdom through marriage to one of that new kingdom.

 

[therese1998]

The Scriptures are what they are. They are an attempt to explain spiritual realities to men who are not equipped, or even inclined at times, to know them.

I don’t think that is necessarily a bad thing. The search to understand, to relate, to internalize will take a lifetime of turning toward God and His word.

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

I think it’s telling when a particular subgroup of Christians lament when a different subgroup of Christians take a certain passage figuratively. Examples include Catholics lamenting when some Protestants don’t read the passages about “This is My body” as literal, or when Evangelicals lament when Catholics and others don’t read the “caught up in the clouds” passage as literally being caught in the clouds.

Personally, when there are so many passages that we’re told (by some) don’t mean what they say, so many retreat positions to explain away passages, that it shouldn’t be surprising when some believer might see no problem in adding one more such reasoning to the large pile of similar reasonings.

 

[Start]

It’s not their fault that they are ignorant.

 

[Thom18]

If you think we have too many metaphors and parables, it’s because you don’t understand their purpose. They exist to serve as reminders. Jesus used parables throughout His ministry because we can recall stories more readily than bare facts- but once the story is explained, we only need to recall the story to recall its message.

 

[ZMystiCat]

“Bride of Christ” is another one that makes no sense unless some theologian spends a couple of paragraphs trying to explain the statement.

I love the “Bride of Christ” language that Paul and John used! It was really important for me becoming Catholic.

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

If anything faith seems to be in direct conflict with reason. Serious comments welcomed.

The night seems opposed to the day until one experiences sunrise and sunset, then the complimentarity and continuity can be seen. I think simplifying things runs the risk of watering them down to misconceptions and potential untruths.

 

[Bruce_Killian]

The Scriptures … have used way too many metaphors, parables, symbolisms, and other figurative language examples in trying to make clear things that are fundamentally mysterious and unknowable.

It is God not the Church that gave us the Scripture. The Church merely recognized what it was given. God did not write to be easily understood or the talk on the road to Emmaus would have been unnecessary and Satan would have fully known God’s plan. The disciple is one who does the necessary work to understand what is quite possibly impossible to know apart from typology, etc.

 

[Usagi]

It also carries on a similar extended metaphor found repeatedly in the Old Testament.

“God’s relationship to His people is like that of a bridegroom and his bride” isn’t that obscure or difficult as metaphors go. Further information about the marriage customs in the different times and places from which the metaphor arises can be helpful in illuminating the details, but it doesn’t require deep theology to grasp the basic comparison.

 

[Usagi]

I do not see how this complaint relates to the relationship between faith and reason at all. Reason is entirely capable of using and grasping metaphor and symbolism, as seen by the fact that such language appears in completely non-religious contexts. Perhaps we’re looking at a difference between direct, concrete language and more poetic language that can be plumbed for different layers and nuances of meaning, but that’s not especially a reason/faith dichotomy. Maybe a STEM/humanities dichotomy.

 

[RandomAlias]

The Scriptures and the Church over the years have used way too many metaphors, parables, symbolisms, and other figurative language examples in trying to make clear things that are fundamentally mysterious and unknowable.

That is the nature of human language. That’s how we communicate truths which are mysterious or beyond our grasp.

Take out all the figurative and symbolic language, and what’s left? A philosophy book that 99.9% of people will never read, and the remaining 0.1% will misapply.

 

[1ke]

The Scriptures and the Church over the years have used way too many metaphors, parables, symbolisms, and other figurative language examples in trying to make clear things that are fundamentally mysterious and unknowable.

We are finite. God is infinite. We have language as our only medium, and it is by its very nature symbolic.

Not sure why that is a problem.

 

[Gabika50]

Read the gospel of john which has less symbolism; continue knowing that God is ultimately mystery who has given a crack in the door by means of scripture and the sacraments and know that “sola scrittura and sola fides” is not in the Bible. Revelations is the last book for a reason- it is tough to describe a stuation (judgement, end of the world, salvation) in concrete terms as John did after his vision