Too much emphasis on Protestants?

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Lepanto

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As much as I love Karl Keating, C.A. and other apologetics sources, I often think that they are barking up the wrong tree 80% of the time by focusing too much on Protestants.

There is a huge, untapped “market” that is barely being addressed: what I call the Lazy Indifferentists. They share these traits:
  1. They don’t see the importance of religion.
  2. They don’t see the differences between religions.
  3. They don’t want to be bothered with learning (forget giving them a book or even a tape).
  4. They think that everybody is cool as long as “you don’t harm anybody.”
Lazy Indifferentists can be agnostics, atheists, non-Christians, or even nominal Christians.

My hope is that CA will spend more time addressing these Lazy Indifferentists with tracts, the radio show, etc.
 
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lepanto:
As much as I love Karl Keating, C.A. and other apologetics sources, I often think that they are barking up the wrong tree 80% of the time by focusing too much on Protestants.

There is a huge, untapped “market” that is barely being addressed: what I call the Lazy Indifferentists. They share these traits:
  1. They don’t see the importance of religion.
  2. They don’t see the differences between religions.
  3. They don’t want to be bothered with learning (forget giving them a book or even a tape).
  4. They think that everybody is cool as long as “you don’t harm anybody.”
Lazy Indifferentists can be agnostics, atheists, non-Christians, or even nominal Christians.

My hope is that CA will spend more time addressing these Lazy Indifferentists with tracts, the radio show, etc.
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Maybe the reason CA and others don’t spend more time on the “Lazy Indifferentists” is that apologetics is, at it’s core, about giving answers. If the “Lazy Indifferentists” are too lazy or too indifferent to ask questions, we can’t give them answers. 🙂
 
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Fidelis:
Maybe the reason CA and others don’t spend more time on the “Lazy Indifferentists” is that apologetics is, at it’s core, about giving answers. If the “Lazy Indifferentists” are too lazy or too indifferent to ask questions, we can’t give them answers. 🙂
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I agree this is a major issue. Someone has to care enough to listen and indifferent people tend to want to be left alone, and really don’t care what our faith is. Now, we do need to be ready when their attitude changes and be prepared to lovingly share the Gospel with these people (usually this is precipitated by a crisis like death that has them question their values), but even then it is not apologetics in the traditional sense of the word.

Another reason is that Protestants are much more likely to try and talk Catholics away from the Church and into their denominations. This is a serious concern in some parts of the country and, again, it is an issue that needs to be addressed. Apologetics helps Catholics be prepared to answer Protestant arguments about Catholicism. This is an area that Mr. Keating’s books have addressed quite well.
 
Some people put a lot of energy into maintaining their lazy indifferentism.
 
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Charles:
Another reason is that Protestants are much more likely to try and talk Catholics away from the Church and into their denominations.
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Just a point of definition, Charles.

Protestants are the churches of the Reformation, and they don’t try to talk Catholics away from the Church. I hardly even hear about Protestant evangelization.

It’s the Fundamentalists, Evangelicals, and to lesser extent the Baptists (all of whom will tell you that they aren’t Protestants) who try to “steal sheep” by preying on Catholics ignorant of the Faith. They, frankly, don’t like Protestants much better than us.
 
Wow… there’s as much protestant bashing from catholics as there is catholic bashing from protestants…

I’d like to ask a question… why are protestants considered lazy? Is it because of the “Once Saved, Always Saved” ideology? I admit, myself, that this method of thinking is flawed. However, are there other reasons? Are there other reasons why protestants are considered lazy? Are there other points of doctrine that would lead one to believe this? I’m not trying to make a point or bash or flame anyone. I simply want to determine where everyone is coming from.
 
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JesusIsTheWay:
I’d like to ask a question… why are protestants considered lazy?
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I’ve not read anywhere on this thread where someone has said that Protestants are lazy… the ‘lazy’ tag has been directed at people indifferent to any religion.
 
ahhh okies… re-read the post… it was actually in a different thread that I read that… sorry to add confusion
 
I think it’s because so many Catholics (9 of my own siblings!) leave the Church after listening to anti-Catholic remarks. They live a life of spiritual indifference and are too lazy to seek the answers to these attacks by simply giving in and jumping ship. Such was the case in our family.
It’s much easier to join a "feel good " religion than to do what we are remided by in Scripture - “. . . those who endure to the end will be saved.”

*“Always be ready to give an explanation to anyone who asks you for a reason for your hope, but do it with gentleness and reverence, keeping your conscience clear, so that, when you are maligned, those who defame your good conduct in Christ may themselves be put to shame.” * - 1 Peter 3:16
 
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Southernrich:
Just a point of definition, Charles.

Protestants are the churches of the Reformation, and they don’t try to talk Catholics away from the Church. I hardly even hear about Protestant evangelization.

It’s the Fundamentalists, Evangelicals, and to lesser extent the Baptists (all of whom will tell you that they aren’t Protestants) who try to “steal sheep” by preying on Catholics ignorant of the Faith. They, frankly, don’t like Protestants much better than us.
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That’s an interesting distinction, one I have not heard before. I was raised Baptist in Canada, and while fundamentalists here tend to regard the Anglicans, etc. as having lost their faith along the way, I never heard that idea that Baptists were not protestants.

I have heard “Brethren” maintain they are a throw back to the “original” church of the Apostles. A look at Justin Martyr and others is enough to smoke that idea, but most of them have never read the early church fathers, or know that their writings even exist. A big history gap there.

The world in which I work everyday is filled with indifferentists. I have wondered about the same issue, the focus on apologetics directed at protestant doctrine.
Personally, I think perhaps a higher evangelical priority should be directed to the fallen away Catholics who live like indifferentists. We need a strong Catholic Church filled with orthodox Catholics supporting each other. Unitatis Redintegratio makes this point rather forcefully.
“For although the Catholic Church has been endowed with all divinely revealed truth and with all means of grace, yet its members fail to live by them with all the fervor that they should, so that the radiance of the Church’s image is less clear in the eyes of our separated brethren and of the world at large, and the growth of God’s kingdom is delayed. All Catholics must therefore aim at Christian perfection(24) and, each according to his station, play his part that the Church may daily be more purified and renewed.”
That would enable more of a focus upon the “separated brethren”. However, everyone has their own calling, and an apostolate directed to the protestants is part of the big picture.
Beyond that, as you point out, is the great mass of paganism, the indifferentists, all of whom God loves as He loves you and me.
A big job. God help us.
 
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JesusIsTheWay:
Wow… there’s as much protestant bashing from catholics as there is catholic bashing from protestants…

I’d like to ask a question… why are protestants considered lazy? Is it because of the “Once Saved, Always Saved” ideology? I admit, myself, that this method of thinking is flawed. However, are there other reasons? Are there other reasons why protestants are considered lazy? Are there other points of doctrine that would lead one to believe this? I’m not trying to make a point or bash or flame anyone. I simply want to determine where everyone is coming from.
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I don’t think that anyone was saying that Protestants are lazy and I certainly would never stereotype the Protestants like that.
 
Do you think that it might be just that most outreach organisations have a specific group in mind? After all, the Legion of Mary is especially committed to fallen away Catholics, Opus Dei often works with Godless folks in the business community … and Catholic Answers works with Protestants! No surprises there.
 
I think we are to concerned about what Protestants think about us so we put to much effert into seeing them as the apologetics target. The big problem is catechesis. If we tought our youth the faith our youth would be less likely to leave the Church.
 
I have a specific question on this topic and I hope I can get some help with this. I have some friends, a married couple with two children, who were raised Catholic but now lead a very secular life and meet all four of the points that were in lepanto’s original post. (Lepanto, you described them to a tee) They believe in God but see no reason/need for organized religion. They are very good moral people and are otherwise very non-judgmental of others and their beliefs. Nothing seems to ruffle them.

What do you say to someone like that that might jolt them awake? Or at least get them thinking?
 
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JesusIsTheWay:
Wow… there’s as much protestant bashing from catholics as there is catholic bashing from protestants… .
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Not true. Catholic apologetics is just that: a defense of the Faith against those who distort the Church’s teaching and specifically and energetically have a systematic agenda to target Catholics because so many are ignorant and indifferent of their own Faith. Among non-Catholics you find proselytizing groups such as “Mission To Catholics,” “Christians Evangelizing Catholics,” and “Ex-Catholics For Christ.” I would challenge anyone to find a Catholic equivalent of these organizations.
 
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lepanto:
As much as I love Karl Keating, C.A. and other apologetics sources, I often think that they are barking up the wrong tree 80% of the time by focusing too much on Protestants.

There is a huge, untapped “market” that is barely being addressed: what I call the Lazy Indifferentists. They share these traits:
  1. They don’t see the importance of religion.
  2. They don’t see the differences between religions.
  3. They don’t want to be bothered with learning (forget giving them a book or even a tape).
  4. They think that everybody is cool as long as “you don’t harm anybody.”
Lazy Indifferentists can be agnostics, atheists, non-Christians, or even nominal Christians.

My hope is that CA will spend more time addressing these Lazy Indifferentists with tracts, the radio show, etc.
Click to expand...
It is to these that the pope want us to focus our new evagelization to…
 
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Southernrich:
Just a point of definition, Charles.

Protestants are the churches of the Reformation, and they don’t try to talk Catholics away from the Church. I hardly even hear about Protestant evangelization.

It’s the Fundamentalists, Evangelicals, and to lesser extent the Baptists (all of whom will tell you that they aren’t Protestants) who try to “steal sheep” by preying on Catholics ignorant of the Faith. They, frankly, don’t like Protestants much better than us.
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I’ve never heard it defined that way, though I can appreciate the difference between reformation churches and evangelicals, et. al. I’ve always used the term Protestant to refer to anyone who is not in communion with the Catholic Church but still accepts Christ as the means of salvation.

Having grown up in an evangelical church (First Brethren) I know we thought we were protestants in the pews.
 
Little Mary:
What do you say to someone like that that might jolt them awake? Or at least get them thinking?
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First, pray. It works!

It is hard to jump into an apologetical conversation for me. However, I find that opportunities to share my faith come up more often than I expect. The best thing to do is be ready by studying, reading, and practicing on boards like this. When they ask a question you’ll be ready!

Remember, their re-conversion is ultimately their choice but I suspect God, who wants them back, has put you there to help.
 
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Southernrich:
Protestants are the churches of the Reformation, and they don’t try to talk Catholics away from the Church. I hardly even hear about Protestant evangelization.

It’s the Fundamentalists, Evangelicals, and to lesser extent the Baptists (all of whom will tell you that they aren’t Protestants) who try to “steal sheep” by preying on Catholics ignorant of the Faith. They, frankly, don’t like Protestants much better than us.
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This is an idiosyncratic definition. Nearly all of those who try to woo Catholics from the Church certainly ARE Protestants, even if they don’t think they are.

Protestants are those Christians who are neither Catholic nor Orthodox and who trace their religious position to the Reformation. There were three original strains in Protestantism: Reformed (Calvinist), Lutheran, and Anglican.

Today’s Fundamentalists and Evangelicals and descended from these three strains. Much of the confusion comes from their not having a lively denominational identity–although some of them do, such as the Baptists.

So far as trying to take Catholics out of the Church is concerned, it would be fair to say that liberal or mainline Protestants don’t do that. That makes sense, since they think one’s salvation isn’t really dependent on which church one belongs to or even whether one is a Christian. If a Catholic would be no better or worse off as, say, a Methodist or broad-church Anglican, why bother to convert him?
 
Hi Karl,

Glad to see that you’re reading / contributing messages here. I’d be interested to see your comments to the original message.

Thanks!
 
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