Torn by sin... is this a sin?

[therese14]

Hi, please pray for me about my crisis in faith. I used to be a very happy person who loves God and faithful to the church. But after I found out about traditional catholicism I am torn. I found this in the Dei Verbum documents : And should the opportunity arise and the Church authorities approve, if these translations are produced in cooperation with the separated brethren as well, all Christians will be able to use them.

That’s in the second Vatican council. I have noticed things I dislike in the texts such as praising paganism and such. I don’t know how to explain this but I don’t want to fall to disobedience or schism. The eastern orthodox church happened when they rejected council of chalchedon. What would happen if I rejected Second Vatican Council? That would be a sin of schism. But as a result now in my country we read the King James Bible as a translation in collaboration with Protestant bible Society, with Catholich bible Society who adds the deuterocanon books to the KJV. The King James Bible has several or many mistranslations, that I compare to the catholic Douay Rheims bible. As now I see the catholic church is flawed by doing this, my heart is torn by rejecting the second Vatican council daily… Because I do not want to deal or commune or collaborate with protestants. Or heretics, as they were called in past ages
In one sense it seems virtuous, in another I am afraid that I commit schism by silently rejecting so many things in the council that I dislike. Like nuns are allowed to not wear a veil in accordance with their activities, if it hinders them. Cremation is allowed… Like the bodies are going to be burnt with fire until it becomes ashes. Ouch. Fire. Not buried.

 

[JamalChristophr]

We would be glad to help you go through things in Vatican II documents to help you put your mind at rest but one thread would be a little too small to cover things you might have trouble with from those documents.

What country are you in if I may ask?

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

I look at different interpretations of similar texts now and then, but the Bible I use most is NABRE, because in my country of the US, it’s “what’s for dinner” at my church every day.

I want to read the same version at home, that is going to be preached at Church, so that I may understand Father’s homily better.

Other versions have value for different reasons. I like to use what the rest of the Church is hearing all over the earth, in the daily offering of the Mass. It is not a sin to study other editions.

 

[Colorad007]

I look at different interpretations of similar texts now and then, but the Bible I use most is NABRE, because in my country of the US, it’s “what’s for dinner” at my church every day.

I want to read the same version at home, that is going to be preached at Church, so that I may understand Father’s homily better.

Other versions have value for different reasons. I like to use what the rest of the Church is hearing all over the earth, in the daily offering of the Mass. It is not a sin to study other editions.

Right. We may be afflicted by the poor North American Bible translation at Mass here in the United States, but I know that it pales in comparison to the RSV version that I use for personal study. It isn’t wrong to have a special distaste for clunky Bible translations. That is, if anything, much more a sign that your brain is actually engaged with Holy Scripture.

The King James is not a particularly good translation, in my opinion. If you don’t like it, just listen patiently at Mass and then use your preferred translation when you want to really get into God’s Word.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

Right. We may be afflicted by the poor North American Bible translation at Mass here in the United States, but I know that it pales in comparison to the RSV version that I use for personal study. It isn’t wrong to have a special distaste for clunky Bible translations. That is, if anything, much more a sign that your brain is actually engaged with Holy Scripture.

The King James is not a particularly good translation, in my opinion. If you don’t like it, just listen patiently at Mass and then use your preferred translation when you want to really get into God’s Word.

Here is a side by side comparison of the story of the dishonest steward, of the NABRE, the D-R 1899, and the RSV. (I actually opted for RSVCE “Catholic Edition” instead of RSV so I’m not sure that’s the one you’re using.) Anyway here you can compare them and see.

Luke 16, NABRE v. D-R 1899 v RSVCE

The first few verses:

NABRE
1 Then he also said to his disciples, “A rich man had a steward who was reported to him for squandering his property. 2 He summoned him and said, ‘What is this I hear about you? Prepare a full account of your stewardship, because you can no longer be my steward.’ 3 The steward said to himself, ‘What shall I do, now that my master is taking the position of steward away from me? I am not strong enough to dig and I am ashamed to beg. 4 I know what I shall do so that, when I am removed from the stewardship, they may welcome me into their homes.’

DR
And he said also to his disciples: There was a certain rich man who had a steward: and the same was accused unto him, that he had wasted his goods.
2 And he called him, and said to him: How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy stewardship: for now thou canst be steward no longer.
3 And the steward said within himself: What shall I do, because my lord taketh away from me the stewardship? To dig I am not able; to beg I am ashamed.
4 I know what I will do, that when I shall be removed from the stewardship, they may receive me into their houses.

RSV(CE)
He also said to the disciples, “There was a rich man who had a steward, and charges were brought to him that this man was wasting his goods. 2 And he called him and said to him, ‘What is this that I hear about you? Turn in the account of your stewardship, for you can no longer be steward.’ 3 And the steward said to himself, ‘What shall I do, since my master is taking the stewardship away from me? I am not strong enough to dig, and I am ashamed to beg. 4 I have decided what to do, so that people may receive me into their houses when I am put out of the stewardship.’

 

[bisco1]

shouldn’t this be in prayer intentions? i don’t see a question.

 

[JamalChristophr]

It should be in prayer intentions, but she also has some intellectual questions I think or is questioning how Vatican II can make sense for Catholics.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

shouldn’t this be in prayer intentions? i don’t see a question.

I found this one:

What would happen if I rejected Second Vatican Council?

I think that’s a very serious issue, but only because the nuns who taught me in grade school in late 60s and early 70s, seemed to like the Mass with the vernacular, and taught us how to attend it reverently. Personally I find so many of the things from VII liberating. I was old enough to remember hymnals Latin on one side and English on the other, but I don’t really ever remember the TLM.

Of course that’s not the only outcome of VII, but I think the biggest thing you might lose is the affirmation that holiness is for everyone, not just religious, both active and cloistered. I’m sure there is a great deal more, but that right there helps my find my unique “narrow path” even as I’m still on the “wide path” with other believers.

MS

 

[truetofaith]

At Mass, the readings from the missal, never sound familiar anymore because of newer translations. This is very bad because verses I learned when I was a child, now are foreign to me. It seems there is a conspiracy to make us forget the original teachings in the Bible.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

At Mass, the readings from the missal, never sound familiar anymore because of newer translations. This is very bad because verses I learned when I was a child, now are foreign to me. It seems there is a conspiracy to make us forget the original teachings in the Bible.

What versions did you used to use? Maybe you can find a search engine for that version, that would recognize the words you use, and you could find it and read it or at least cross-reference to a newer version?

Like even though it started out Protestant versions only if I recall right, biblegateway.org now has several Catholic versions, and has good search capabilities. Is your favorite version there? Or is that the question – what version was it that you used to like?

That brings up another question: do you still have a Concordance from your own older edition? Even if it’s in paper form, you can still use it to help find verses.

Personally I don’t mind hearing newer versions of the things I learned when I was little, but I do want to know that it matches up. And I get curious why we like this wording better than that wording? Have we learned something new, or “dumbed down” the meaning? I just have to rely on the Catholic Church that it stays pure and as long as I am using a Catholic version that hasn’t been somehow condemned or retracted, I should be ok?

I actually feel more sentimental about my hymns than the readings, because honestly I didn’t really grasp the readings too well when I was little so everything’s pretty new to me anyway as far as Catholic version evolution. But when I hear those good old hymns “Praise to the Lord” or “Panis Angelicus” and “Down in Adoration Falling” on the organ, it brings me right back! :heaven:

And since I happen to be a church organist, I have the keys to go hear it any time, including in a dark church lit only by the organ light, the candles, and outside lights coming in the windows.

And even though we’ve moved mostly to piano at our church, you had better believe that the other day I played “Hail Holy Queen” on full organ, with all the stops pulled. :harp:

 

[bisco1]

as a new catholic, i’m fortunate not to have to wrestle with this. my wife just barely remembers pre vatican II, and is happy with the changes. i never heard her parents complain.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

as a new catholic, i’m fortunate not to have to wrestle with this. my wife just barely remembers pre vatican II, and is happy with the changes. i never heard her parents complain.

Awesome! That puts you ahead of a lot of us with some leftover baggage!

Starting with a “clean slate” is, to me, kind of like “being like a child” as Jesus wants. He can shape us best where we haven’t already hardened!

MS

 

[JamalChristophr]

At Mass, the readings from the missal, never sound familiar anymore because of newer translations. This is very bad because verses I learned when I was a child, now are foreign to me. It seems there is a conspiracy to make us forget the original teachings in the Bible.

This is not essentially where the OP is starting from, but I too dislike the new translations of scripture somewhat often that are being read at mass, but I do not see a conspiracy nor does it make me question my place or the absolutely veracity in and of the Catholic Church.