Torrents and piracy

[Joe_5859]

There’s only three cases I condone piracy:

1. You have paid and preorderd the product and its late.
2. You have every intention of buying it and do. Peopl have seen me in record stores muttering ‘who do I still owemoney too?’
3. the product is no longer for sale within reason. Like downloading gameboy games.

I don’t really find these cases very sympathetic.

1. Having an item arrive late? So a person has a right to download something illegally because they can’t wait a couple days? Are we really that impatient?
2. Downloading in advance of purchasing? Perhaps if a person was extremely disciplined about this, but I can see a lot of people thinking, “Oh yeah, I’ll buy it later” and never get around to it.
3. There are plenty of gameboy games available to download through the 3DS shop.

 

[MKF]

Thank you for the clarification, Kithrus.

 

[TimothyKennedy]

I don’t know if bumping old threads are against the rules, but I wouldn’t want to recreate an existing topic with already a large amount of information, but this topic interests me.
I torrent games, music, textbooks, books, and movies.
I see no reason why, because everything I torrented was for leisure.
The common argument I hear is “torrenting is stealing profit away from the developer/publisher/author/artist/etc”, however I would have never purchased any of the content in the first place. And in many cases, I HAVE bought the product after downloading said product to show my support for the author/developer/etc. So they actually gained a sale, not lost one. And if I don’t buy their product afterwards, they see no loss, because I wouldn’t have bought the product anyway.
For example, I downloaded Europa Universalis III and its accompanying expansion packs to try the game out, it seemed interesting to me, but as I had never played the game before I didn’t want to spend blindly. I bought it, liked it, and I purchased the game to show my support for the developers.
For music, I buy less often, but I own most of this content already, through movies and games. I also eventually bought a complete compilation of Neutral Milk Hotel’s works, one that cost $110, something that would’ve never occurred had I never torrented In The Aeroplane Over The Sea.
For textbooks, it’s just a convenience thing, I would much rather lug around my one laptop than four multi page bricks.
Movies, same thing, I see them and if I like them, then I purchase them, if I don’t purchase them nothing is lost from the publishers/actors/director/etc.
Does anyone care to correct me?

 

[Godfollower]

I don’t know if bumping old threads are against the rules, but I wouldn’t want to recreate an existing topic with already a large amount of information, but this topic interests me.
I torrent games, music, textbooks, books, and movies.
I see no reason why, because everything I torrented was for leisure.
The common argument I hear is “torrenting is stealing profit away from the developer/publisher/author/artist/etc”, however I would have never purchased any of the content in the first place. And in many cases, I HAVE bought the product after downloading said product to show my support for the author/developer/etc. So they actually gained a sale, not lost one. And if I don’t buy their product afterwards, they see no loss, because I wouldn’t have bought the product anyway.
For example, I downloaded Europa Universalis III and its accompanying expansion packs to try the game out, it seemed interesting to me, but as I had never played the game before I didn’t want to spend blindly. I bought it, liked it, and I purchased the game to show my support for the developers.
For music, I buy less often, but I own most of this content already, through movies and games. I also eventually bought a complete compilation of Neutral Milk Hotel’s works, one that cost $110, something that would’ve never occurred had I never torrented In The Aeroplane Over The Sea.
For textbooks, it’s just a convenience thing, I would much rather lug around my one laptop than four multi page bricks.
Movies, same thing, I see them and if I like them, then I purchase them, if I don’t purchase them nothing is lost from the publishers/actors/director/etc.
Does anyone care to correct me?

I hear this justification a lot, and I don’t buy it (if you’ll pardon the pun). Clearly you would have bought it anyway, because you in fact did download it. If you take the entire universe of products you downloaded without buying them, I find it hard to believe that there isn’t a single one you would have paid for if that were the only way to get them.

But, setting that aside, the whole “I only steal things to try them out, and I pay for them later if I like them” defense doesn’t hold water. As Christians, we are required to obey the property rights of others, and the law of the land has made it crystal-clear that the copyright holder owns the right over duplicating songs/movies/etc., and downloading without permission is stealing. It is a sin to take without permission.

Suppose I have a garden, and I go away in the middle of the growing season for six weeks. If you take my tomatoes without my permission, is it moral just because there will be more tomatoes on the vines by the time I get back? Absolutely not: it’s stealing, even if the tomatoes would have rotted on the vine while I was away. The same is true here: downloading without permission is theft.

So, I’m sorry, but you’re wrong.

 

[TimothyKennedy]

I hear this justification a lot, and I don’t buy it (if you’ll pardon the pun). Clearly you would have bought it anyway, because you in fact did download it. If you take the entire universe of products you downloaded without buying them, I find it hard to believe that there isn’t a single one you would have paid for if that were the only way to get them.

But, setting that aside, the whole “I only steal things to try them out, and I pay for them later if I like them” defense doesn’t hold water. As Christians, we are required to obey the property rights of others, and the law of the land has made it crystal-clear that the copyright holder owns the right over duplicating songs/movies/etc., and downloading without permission is stealing. It is a sin to take without permission.

Suppose I have a garden, and I go away in the middle of the growing season for six weeks. If you take my tomatoes without my permission, is it moral just because there will be more tomatoes on the vines by the time I get back? Absolutely not: it’s stealing, even if the tomatoes would have rotted on the vine while I was away. The same is true here: downloading without permission is theft.

So, I’m sorry, but you’re wrong.

I would agree with you 100%, if we were talking about physical and tangible products. You also say I am stealing. That is 100% incorrect. I’m not taking a product away from someone and keeping it for myself. Someone is duplicating a product and giving one to me. The developers, who are the ones who should be supported, get all the money from the game they’ll ever see from the publisher.
I’ll use your tomato analogy in the correct manner. You have tomatoes and you sell them to a distributor, you get all the money you will ever get from that batch, from then on it’s the distributor who sells the tomatoes. My friend buys one, and through “magic” he clones a bunch and gives some to me. But I don’t need the tomatoes, I already have food, it’s just pizza without any tomatoes isn’t as good as a pizza with tomatoes. And I like them so much, I’ll buy some from you either directly, or through the distributor if they’re good (Rockstar, Paradox Intereactive and the like, I refuse to support EA, Capcom, or Activision). Let’s say I didn’t like them, no biggie, you weren’t hurt because then I wouldn’t have bought them anyway.

 

[Godfollower]

I would agree with you 100%, if we were talking about physical and tangible products. You also say I am stealing. That is 100% incorrect. I’m not taking a product away from someone and keeping it for myself. Someone is duplicating a product and giving one to me. The developers, who are the ones who should be supported, get all the money from the game they’ll ever see from the publisher.
I’ll use your tomato analogy in the correct manner. You have tomatoes and you sell them to a distributor, you get all the money you will ever get from that batch, from then on it’s the distributor who sells the tomatoes. My friend buys one, and through “magic” he clones a bunch and gives some to me. But I don’t need the tomatoes, I already have food, it’s just pizza without any tomatoes isn’t as good as a pizza with tomatoes. And I like them so much, I’ll buy some from you either directly, or through the distributor if they’re good (Rockstar, Paradox Intereactive and the like, I refuse to support EA, Capcom, or Activision). Let’s say I didn’t like them, no biggie, you weren’t hurt because then I wouldn’t have bought them anyway.

Tangibleness is not an acceptable measure of morality. I can’t walk through your bedroom just because I’m not hurting anything; it’s still trespassing, even if I don’t touch any of your stuff (and even if “through ‘magic’” I float through the room).

You argue “Someone is duplicating a product and giving one to me.” Yes, that’s the problem: copyright law reserves to the copyright holder the absolute right to make copies of the original. You are invading that right (or, if you prefer, your buddy is invading that right and you’re enabling him); thus, you are breaking the law.

In addition, your buddy is guilty of dishonesty: he could’ve purchased the right to make and distribute copies of the work from the publisher (they do sell that right, you know; it’s just more expensive than buying a copy solely for your own use); but he chose to pay the lower price for one copy but make and give away copies anyway. In other words, he’s a liar: “I’ll take one copy, please, and no, I don’t need the expensive one that allows me to make and distribute copies; I just want one for me [intending all along to make copies without permission].”

And, by knowingly accepting the copies that were made without permission of the copyright holder, you’re receiving stolen property.