Tough challenge from an atheist friend

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Hello.

God exists out of time. Your friend is using his measure of time against a being who doesn’t need this measure. Also, God gives us time to repent and turn to Him. He is generous.

I don’t know where Jesus said anything about practicing religion in general, but He did say to follow Him. He said He is the source of life everlasting.

Where does your friend get his information? Perhaps you could suggest some good apologetics books for your friend. This site has some excellent sources.
 
Struggling1 said:
A friend of mine posed this argument I am having a hard time with.

…people are afraid of not existing after death. Please help me refute these somehow!!!
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Yeah, okay.

People invented a religion that raises the possibility of eternal hell because they are afraid of “not existing after death.”

Makes sense.

But why not just invent a religion that says everyone will live happily forever after they die no matter what they do while on earth?

I suppose that would be a better therapeutic solution to a fear of not existing after death.
 
This is a really good angle! Why would you have the risk of hell if you just want to exist. Thank you!
 
To the first point, I’m assuming it has something to do with the claim of a deity wanting a relationship with her believers. Kinda hard to have a relationship with someone that hides from you for your entire life and only exists in the legends passed down from person to person. It’s like trying to have a relationship with your long dead great great grandmother. You can understand the character about who that person was, but you can not have a relationship like you have with your friends with that dead grandmother. This deity seems to be playing the game of divine hiddeness and then punishes you for using your ability to understand what is reasonable to accept; concluding that having a relationship with a long dead grandmother is an unreasonable expectation to have.

As to your friend’s point about fear of death. That’s absurd. Just ask people why they have a relationship with this deity and that is what is true to them. Take people on what they say, not what you think they are not saying.
 
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Struggling1 said:
A friend of mine posed this argument I am having a hard time with. Why has god taken thousands of years to come back? He also proposed most people practice religion because the people are afraid of not existing after death. Please help me refute these somehow!
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1st. i’M not A THEOLOGIAN

But on the “time” issue:

For God “time”, a very human invention simply does not exist; everything is Present to God. But that still seems to evade the question; which I suspect only God Himself can fully explain.[Isaiah 55:8-9]

What we can know is that God in order to BE GOD in an absolute sense HAS to be Perfect & Good. So whatever the full answer is; it is the right one; the Just One.
Struggling1 said:
He also proposed most people practice religion because the people are afraid of not existing after death. Please help me refute these somehow!!!
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Actually the answer is the EXACT OPPOSITE.

It is precisely because we do know; and DO believe that human life has a purpose {Isaiah 43: 7 & 21}. It is our believe in a Heaven Hell and Purgatory that motivates us to live a moral life of charity and FAITH beliefs.

HOW? WHY?
Briefly due to space limitations:

IN the entire Universe with its BILLIONS of stars, plants an galaxies; only One; only planet earth can be PROVEN to be able support all the life-form, including man that we know of

On planet earth, only one thing is RATIONAL; humanity. WHY?
Because God too is Rational and we Could, Should and “would” choose eternal life with God. Amen {I do believe.}

Send me a private message if you have further question {PJM}

Blessings
Patrick
 
I will pray for you; being 22 and on a college campus with things like a Catholic Student Assocations, friendships with other Catholics are like “built in” for me, but they won’t be after we all graduate. I know this would be difficult but maybe you could look into having like a Young Adult night in your diocese? Maybe go to a Theology on Tap in your area if that’s done there? It’s a difficult situation. We can’t do it by ourselves, we need community with others.
 
What is thousands of years to us could be a day to our God.

I’m not afraid of not “existing” because I know in every part of my mind and soul that God and Jesus do exist. The only thing I’m afraid of is dying and not doing enough for God and for others. Because every kind thing we do for someone else we do for Christ.
 
Would that I can one day believe as you do and have confidence.
 
Struggling1 said:
A friend of mine posed this argument I am having a hard time with. Why has god taken thousands of years to come back? He also proposed most people practice religion because the people are afraid of not existing after death. Please help me refute these somehow!!!
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Here’s my thought.

First and foremost, “How can I refute these arguments?!” should not be your first response. Mounting an erratic defense won’t convince said friend–or you, for that matter. I would analyze the validity of their statement and then look into it, weighing all the options available within reason.

Why hasn’t Jesus returned yet? A fair question that no mortal has the answer to. Simply put, we just don’t know, and according to the Gospels, only the Father does. One can speculate, and I’m inclined to agree with the previous posters. More time means more souls. God wills us into being & sustains us at every instant out of his love. Even when life seems wicked and existence futile, it is a gift for which we are indebted. The Apostles hoped Jesus would return within their lifetimes, and indeed expected it. The early Church Fathers did too. Each successive generation faces their struggles and thinks, “This must be it. It can’t get worse.” Do remember it took ~200,000 years for God to assume flesh in the first place.

"People practice religion because they don’t want to be annihilated!" This may be true of some, sure. But the fact is, simply holding a belief does not mean it is valid. There must be a reason, with evidence and proof for holding it. Natural theology and divine revelation have shown us that Christianity is correct. If that’s the case, then we have to seriously consider the implications and go from there.

On the other hand, it would be hypocritical to call Christians weak for requiring a “crutch” to face life’s difficulties. Money, pleasure, power, entertainment—these are all illusory crutches that people use to distract themselves from reality.

It’s also worth noting that if one believes in the Christian faith because of fear tactics (i.e. possibility of damnation or annihilation, etc), that does not automatically invalidate their belief. Sure, their REASONS are bad, but all kinds of people have insufficient reasons for thinking things are true. It’s not a problem that is exclusive to religion.
 
As Lewis states, “the Christian religion is, in the long run, a thing of unspeakable comfort. But it does not begin in comfort; it begins in…dismay….if you look for truth, you may find comfort in the end: if you look for comfort you will not get either comfort or truth—only soft soap and wishful thinking to begin with and, in the end, despair.”[8]

www.paul-gould.com

C.S. Lewis, the Moral Argument for God, and the Gospel - Paul Gould

In the conclusion of his famous Critique of Practical Reason, Kant famously said, “two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and reverence… the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me.” Years later, C.S. Lewis picks up this Kantian insight and formulates an...
www.paul-gould.com
 
Christianity, and when I say Christianity, I mean orthodox Christianity, has, since Jesus Christ left this earth, been in a position of not abandoned. Every week, every day, heaven touches earth, and we can get a taste of heaven. So far away it seems but so close in reality. Kingdom of God present now, realized fully in the return, but none the less, present.
 
Struggling1 said:
A friend of mine posed this argument I am having a hard time with. Why has god taken thousands of years to come back? He also proposed most people practice religion because the people are afraid of not existing after death. Please help me refute these somehow!!!
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The real issue is why were you (if you’re no longer) struggling with this?

A better question than taking years to come would be "why is god only present in stories of old? - even if you look at the scriptures, they often begin with “in those days”.

Not existing after death is an old fear. The fear of death. It has very likely existed since way before Christianity… considering how even animals fear death, I’d say it pre-dates humanity, by ages.
But humanity has managed to turn that fear into something wonderful… how did that happen? Pre-religion man must have had tribal warfare and wished death upon his enemies on other tribes… but also loved his mates on his own tribe. What happened to their parents when they died? Why could they still see their loved ones in their dreams?.. even some waking dreams? Visions in transe-like states also provided glimpses into the ancestors… “They must still be there, alive, somehow - I will be there too, someday.”
Add animistic gods, polytheist gods, mesh them all into one amorphous god… the fear of death and desire to be with dead loved ones remains.

But what about those enemies? “The bad guys can’t go on existing in the same place as me and my loved ones”… need I say more?

Anyway, this only has to do with religion, because religions incorporated these notions into their systems, cleverly playing with normal human emotion.
The belief that a god exists need not be intertwined with the belief in a human afterlife, nor with the coming of some prophet-like human.
 
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