Tracking Weekly Mass Attendance?

[centurionguard]

wow, i’ve never heard of such strict attendance checking within a Catholic parish

I’ve never heard of strict attendance checking either.

I know that in my parish there are a number of increasing families who were middle income families and now live in low-income poverty level conditions. Regrettable and feeling embarrassed they approached the priest or Church secretary and had to request a halt on church envelopes. So does the Church remove these families from their registries as if they no longer belong to the Parish they attend because they can’t afford to give monetarily to their parish? I’m one amongst such families.

Prior to the 1970’'s I remember family members in parishes actually paying for designated pews through their weekly donations to the Church. This practice has long stopped many decades ago.

In a very large Wesleyan church in my city where 35% of members comprise of Ex-Catholics, membership into the church requires that you give them a copy of your annual income-tax statement. They require that you give close to 30% of your net annual-income. Makes me wonder if any Catholic parishes buy into this idea.

 

[zab]

I’ve never heard of strict attendance checking either.

I know that in my parish there are a number of increasing families who were middle income families and now live in low-income poverty level conditions. Regrettable and feeling embarrassed they approached the priest or Church secretary and had to request a halt on church envelopes. So does the Church remove these families from their registries as if they no longer belong to the Parish they attend because they can’t afford to give monetarily to their parish? I’m one amongst such families.

Prior to the 1970’'s I remember family members in parishes actually paying for designated pews through their weekly donations to the Church. This practice has long stopped many decades ago.

In a very large Wesleyan church in my city where 35% of members comprise of Ex-Catholics, membership into the church requires that you give them a copy of your annual income-tax statement. They require that you give close to 30% of your net annual-income. Makes me wonder if any Catholic parishes buy into this idea.

You are not removed from the registry because you cannot afford to make a monetary contribution. People who are in situations where they cannot give money to the parish may be able to donate their time and talents and/or their prayers.

The church has never demanded that we tithe a certain percentage of our income. But our stewardship materials do offer a suggested tithing amount based on our yearly income. It is suggested that we give 5% of our income to our parish and 5% to charities. The annual Catholic appeal to the diocese is part of the 5% going to charites. But it is up to each family to decide what they can afford to tithe to the church.

 

[CB_Catholic]

Just my two bits. One Protestant church I used to attend had ‘head’ counters. These men would discreetly count every single person in the church for every Sunday. On top of this they had a ‘member’ list and a ‘guest’ list. They’d pass it around during the service and you filled out information like your name, if you need assistance, if you’re a member or a returning visitor… etc. In all honesty I found the lists very distracting. :\ Many people filled them out during the sermon… Mostly because they wanted you to hand the list over during the offering.

As to tracking weekly Mass Attendance. If it’s done for the purpose of allowing for accomodating as many people as come that’s cool. Further if it’s done discreetly, it’s cool.

When I first read your title my first thought was; Oh great. So now they’re going to judge who’s coming every week and who’s not? - It just evoked this image of a situation that would allow for much judgment to be cast down upon those who don’t ‘seem’ to meet their weekly Mass obligation. My brain works in funny ways.

I think ushers do head counts in my parish. I think they actually need to know how many people are attending each Mass to plan for the future. For instance, there was talk of rearranging the Mass schedule, perhaps eliminating one of the Masses, if the attendance at that Mass was declining, and there would need to be proof of that. Envelopes aren’t a good way to determine things because many people make monthly or bi-montly donatons in my parish. I often do bi-monthly because there are times I am out of town visiting my family, and I will put in two weeks worth of donations. I know parishes that have consolidated two Masses because the attendance wasn’t high enough at each or eliminated one of the Masses altogether, to contain costs or deal with a priest shortage. The idea isn’t to judge who’s coming to church, it’s to get a realistic appraisal of how many people are attending Mass, and in some cases eliminating or even adding a Mass if need be.

 

[ProVobis]

The church has never demanded that we tithe a certain percentage of our income. But our stewardship materials do offer a suggested tithing amount based on our yearly income. It is suggested that we give 5% of our income to our parish and 5% to charities. The annual Catholic appeal to the diocese is part of the 5% going to charites. But it is up to each family to decide what they can afford to tithe to the church.

Yes, that decision is ours to make. Basing it on percentage of income has its flaws. For example, if I make $10,000 and give $500, and that comes out of my pocket. If I run a small business with revenues of $400,000 with business expenses of $300,000 that gives me an income of $100,000, assuming I haven’t incorporated myself. So let’s say I pay 5%, or $5,000, of which I’m going to get back 35%, or about $2,200, from the government in the way of deductions. Therefore only $2,800 really comes out of my pocket. But what’s that in terms of real percentage of income? Percentage of revenues?

Just saying.

 

[Pug]

I’ve never been in a parish where they mailed out the envelopes. Even back in the 50s when I was a kid I remember someone sitting in the sacristy after Mass giving out packets and recording the numbers.

I look at who gave last year, make up envelopes for those who’ve given more than the cost of a packet (I’ve seen years when an envelope owner has only given $2) and place them at the back of the church where parishioners pick them up. There’s always a sign up sheet for people to request a packet if they’ve never used before, are new to the parish or simply want to start using them again.

Phemie,

It is always interesting to see how each parish is different. In our parish, if you register, you get envelopes in the mail. We used to be allowed to “check a box” on the registration form to refuse envelopes, but that box was deliberately removed. I asked about it, and they said it was easier with the printer to just print them for the whole list of the parish, but I didn’t understand why, so I can’t explain. I think it is best to not send them if a household does not wish to use them. It sounds like that is what you do, except they are not mailed, but instead given out at the back of the church to those who want them.

I have seen that in a parish where the priest wanted parents to have attended Mass for at least 6 months before having a child baptized.

It wouldn’t occur to me that early in my pregnancy to contact my parish about baptism, so I imagine things like this would be alienating to a couple, since when I was younger like that, I wouldn’t have had any mechanical way to prove I’d been attending mass, even though I had been. There I’d be at 8 months, contacting the parish, and I’d find out I’d need to get signed attendance sheets starting now and for 5 months after the birth before my baby would receive baptism.

 

[Pug]

Just my two bits. One Protestant church I used to attend had ‘head’ counters. These men would discreetly count every single person in the church for every Sunday. On top of this they had a ‘member’ list and a ‘guest’ list. They’d pass it around during the service and you filled out information like your name, if you need assistance, if you’re a member or a returning visitor… etc. In all honesty I found the lists very distracting. :\ Many people filled them out during the sermon… Mostly because they wanted you to hand the list over during the offering.

As to tracking weekly Mass Attendance. If it’s done for the purpose of allowing for accomodating as many people as come that’s cool. Further if it’s done discreetly, it’s cool.

When I first read your title my first thought was; Oh great. So now they’re going to judge who’s coming every week and who’s not? - It just evoked this image of a situation that would allow for much judgment to be cast down upon those who don’t ‘seem’ to meet their weekly Mass obligation. My brain works in funny ways.

I’m completely familiar with the passed around sheets where you check member or guest. I checked guest as a child since I wasn’t confirmed and so I counted as a guest. I grew up Protestant, as you can see. They were distracting as you say, so of course I liked them as a child. Oh, coooool, here’s the list Grandma, let me fill it out! She must have loved it. Complete silence and lack of wiggling for five whole minutes.

You weren’t that far off in your reaction to the title. That’s my reaction to the title, in some respects. I think of partial shut ins, those who are sick often, those who travel many weeks of the year, those who work weekends, those who only donate small sums without envelopes, and wonder what kind of hoop/barrier that would turn into for them. I still bless the priest who married me and my husband. He found a way to make precana work for us with our schedule, and he believed me about attending mass and confession in another state (which I had). I have no idea what would have happened to me if he hadn’t made precana work. I was so weak, and my husband was only returning to the faith on my account.

Bless you Fr. X! May his perpetual light shine upon you!

 

[Pug]

On a practical basis it only remains to remind the average CAtholic that if you have not registered in your parish, are not active in any ministries or participating in RE or other parish programs, other than your regular donations, the pastor has no way of knowing who is and is not a “practicing Catholic”, so when you come to ask for baptism for your child, to use the church hall for your wedding, or to enroll your child in the parish school how, realistically, do you expect the pastor to know you are a member of his flock?

When I was younger I assumed that they knew you were a member by one of two means. Either you were in the boundaries, so that was your parish, or you were registered in another parish, perhaps by your work, so they also would know about you. When I was young, it never crossed my mind that I would have to prove I was going to mass. I just went to mass. They didn’t teach me anything in RCIA about this topic but registering and donating (and I just gave cash) and where my confirmation would be recorded. If we are supposed to be proving via some visible trail that we are active Catholics as we go along, someone ought to teach people that up front, just as you say we ought to remind people. They particularly ought to tell it to Protestants who learned to go in their room and close the door to pray. The last thing I would have done is tried to make a visible trail.

I agree with the fiscal accountability thing. We don’t need the envelope at our parish, though. We can write a check and give them our “number” that keeps track of us. I don’t do that often, though, to save paperwork.

 

[Pug]

I’m all for it and here’s why:

1. I like to get a tax deduction for my charitable giving
2. It’s good for the pastor to know roughly how many hosts to consecrate at Masses
3. my parish gets money from the Diocesan Services Fund based on # of parishioners
4. my parish GIVES money to the Diocesan Services Fund based on # of parishioners
5. my parish gets services from the diocese based on # of parisioners
6. the Cardinal needs to know how many priests and deacons we need
7. I have nothing to hide and do not find it intrusive in any way

And here is why using the number of registered parishioners from the main office doesn’t cut it:

1. many people register at a parish to gain tuition discount and/or enrollment in the parish school
2. some people register at a parish for sacraments and are never heard from again, thus providing no financial support but their numbers still show up on the DSF annual taxes. This has, in the past, caused my parish some problems.
3. people die, move away, etc

All of this makes sense for a general, accurate head count. Thanks for reminding me of how many things are based on that. I assume the DSF is not just based on a headcount, but also on the wealth available?

I’m not on board with individual tracking, though, like having a record every week if person N attended mass or confession. There are way too many ways to do wrong with that.

 

[Phemie]

Phemie,

I think it is best to not send them if a household does not wish to use them. It sounds like that is what you do, except they are not mailed, but instead given out at the back of the church to those who want them.

Just keeping it ‘financial’:

We have ~450 families on record.
We have 110 packets of envelopes printed and we usually give out most of them.
~90 families will use them regularly, the rest will give anywhere from once to a dozen times a year.

Printing and mailing out 450 boxes of envelopes wouldn’t be good stewardship in a parish that is always short of funds for things like building upkeep.

It wouldn’t occur to me that early in my pregnancy to contact my parish about baptism, so I imagine things like this would be alienating to a couple, since when I was younger like that, I wouldn’t have had any mechanical way to prove I’d been attending mass, even though I had been. There I’d be at 8 months, contacting the parish, and I’d find out I’d need to get signed attendance sheets starting now and for 5 months after the birth before my baby would receive baptism.

I think that works in a small parish like the one I was in at the time. They didn’t exactly need signed attendance sheets since a parishioner’s presence or lack of it was very noticeable – if Fr. didn’t know you, you weren’t even a half-time attender. He required proof that they had attended outside the parish if they were gone on holidays.

 

[cecilia97]

All of this makes sense for a general, accurate head count. Thanks for reminding me of how many things are based on that. I assume the DSF is not just based on a headcount, but also on the wealth available?

I’m not on board with individual tracking, though, like having a record every week if person N attended mass or confession. There are way too many ways to do wrong with that.

I don’t know, but our parish is not wealthy and we have to ask the diocese to adjust our annual DSF contribution downward quite often. The pastor has to go to the Cardinal with some sort of documentation as to why this would be fair. So, headcounts and demographics can be quite helpful.

I’ve never been to any parish where there was a list of how many times a particular individual attended Mass…and certainly NOT confession! I just don’t think we have anything to worry about there. Priests are way too busy for that, frankly.

For example: I am self-employed and my income is very irregular. I get envelopes from the parish but I use about 8 per year…I write the church a check when I get a check. There will be months at a stretch when I give the church nothing. Still, my pastor knows me, knows I attend Mass, and we shake hands once or twice a month after Mass. I’m sure, if he even thought about it, he’d know that when I’m not in church one weekend, I’m probably just out of town.

 

[Pug]

Just keeping it ‘financial’:

We have ~450 families on record.
We have 110 packets of envelopes printed and we usually give out most of them.
~90 families will use them regularly, the rest will give anywhere from once to a dozen times a year.

Printing and mailing out 450 boxes of envelopes wouldn’t be good stewardship in a parish that is always short of funds for things like building upkeep.

Phemie,

Those are some interesting statistics. Less than a quarter are using the envelopes. I never would have guessed so few. Perhaps it is like cecilia97 mentioned, that people move away or die.

I think that works in a small parish like the one I was in at the time. They didn’t exactly need signed attendance sheets since a parishioner’s presence or lack of it was very noticeable – if Fr. didn’t know you, you weren’t even a half-time attender. He required proof that they had attended outside the parish if they were gone on holidays.

Got it. You’re right that in a small parish, the priest will likely know all the people who come, as long as he isn’t recently assigned there.

 

[Pug]

I don’t know, but our parish is not wealthy and we have to ask the diocese to adjust our annual DSF contribution downward quite often. The pastor has to go to the Cardinal with some sort of documentation as to why this would be fair. So, headcounts and demographics can be quite helpful.

I’ve never been to any parish where there was a list of how many times a particular individual attended Mass…and certainly NOT confession! I just don’t think we have anything to worry about there. Priests are way too busy for that, frankly.

For example: I am self-employed and my income is very irregular. I get envelopes from the parish but I use about 8 per year…I write the church a check when I get a check. There will be months at a stretch when I give the church nothing. Still, my pastor knows me, knows I attend Mass, and we shake hands once or twice a month after Mass. I’m sure, if he even thought about it, he’d know that when I’m not in church one weekend, I’m probably just out of town.

Our parish assessment has gone down recently, too. I’ve figured it is the recession, because our weekly offertory money seems to be declining. We used to regularly exceed our required DSF collection, so the extra went into our parish funds. But not recently. The parish funds have had to pay the difference.

You are quite right that busy priests puts a limit on what can be done! I’m glad your priest recognizes you. It feels nicer, more like belonging, if someone recognizes you.

 

[Phemie]

Phemie,

Those are some interesting statistics. Less than a quarter are using the envelopes. I never would have guessed so few. Perhaps it is like cecilia97 mentioned, that people move away or die.

We have some who use envelopes and never request a receipt, even if their donations total a few hundred dollars.
We have others who never use envelopes but I know that they are at Mass if they are in town and they throw in a $20 each time.

Then we have an itinerant pharmacist who fills in all over the province for those who want to go on holidays. I have assigned him a number in our parish since whenever he is working in town he puts a cheque in the collection plate each week. I became aware of him when he had a 6-month contract in town and requested a box of envelopes to use while he was here.

What I suspect is that those who don’t request envelopes don’t give and don’t want that noticed. Of course it’s a fact that many on the list are C&E Catholics – if that.

 

[ProVobis]

We have others who never use envelopes but I know that they are at Mass if they are in town and they throw in a $20 each time.

I throw in only cash myself now. As I attend Masses in a few different parishes, if I as much as write a check, I find myself on all kinds of mailing lists.

 

[cecilia97]

Phemie,

Those are some interesting statistics. Less than a quarter are using the envelopes. I never would have guessed so few. Perhaps it is like cecilia97 mentioned, that people move away or die.

Got it. You’re right that in a small parish, the priest will likely know all the people who come, as long as he isn’t recently assigned there.

Our parish has about 2500 registered families. According to the weekly bulletins, about 4-500 families use envelopes each week…also less than a quarter.

For the last several years, we have had to ask that our DSF contributions be reduced by about 20-25%. some of that number, I know from my volunteer work, is not because of people who moved or died, but who registered at the parish without ever really attending. They may have registered for baptisms or educational reasons such as CCE for their kids…we don’t always know. We do live in an area with a lot of transient and immigrant population, and registration on a parish’s “books” in one way to form a paper trail for future citizenship.

I must say that, in a parish this large (and ours is just average for my area) it’s impossible for the pastor to know all of the regular attendees by sight…but he does a pretty durn good job of trying! So, I can see the need for some sort of tracking system.

 

[Pug]

I throw in only cash myself now. As I attend Masses in a few different parishes, if I as much as write a check, I find myself on all kinds of mailing lists.

So true. I only put cash in mission appeals (second collections), now. That saves the order money, since they don’t end up sending me lots of stuff.

 

[dconklin]

I am on staff at a large parish. We count attendance at every Mass. We are about to launch a capital campaign to build a larger church. It is much easier to present our case to the bishop for a larger space if we can show accurate attendance.

Our Assoc Pastor is a numbers guy and likes to see trends and be able to forecast.