Traditional church architecture

  • Thread starter Thread starter UnityofTrinity
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
U

UnityofTrinity

Guest
There have been many revivals in historyin regard of architecture and styles. After Vatican II, new churches are built in modern structure that something to me take away the beauty of the church. Do you this there are any hope for the revival of traditional Catholic architecture,at least in America?
 
There have been many revivals in historyin regard of architecture and styles. After Vatican II, new churches are built in modern structure that something to me take away the beauty of the church. Do you this there are any hope for the revival of traditional Catholic architecture,at least in America?
Yes, I’ve seen this revival in these two churches in the Diocese of Charlotte, NC. The church seen and spoken about at the first two links is a newly-built church; the second is a complete remodel (please see the photos of this one at the site):

salisburycatholic.org/church/index.php

salisburypost.com/News/122009-sacred-heart-side-architect

stanncharlotte.org/content/
 
There have been many revivals in historyin regard of architecture and styles. After Vatican II, new churches are built in modern structure that something to me take away the beauty of the church. Do you this there are any hope for the revival of traditional Catholic architecture,at least in America?
Nope. After seeing the eye-sore design of our new cathedral, I don’t see a traditional revival of Catholic architecture.


A real eye-catcher of a cathedral, eh?

I was told we don’t have masonry skills to build churches like we used to.
 
I personally think that the “Green” movement will drive architectural styles in churches and every other building in the U.S. in the next few decades. These days, it’s all about decreasing our carbon imprint.

So does anyone know how the traditional cruciform church buildings measure up to “green” standards? I would think they would do pretty good compared to the clam-shells and boxes of modern times.
 
That was a very…errrmmm…interesting cathedral pictured there. Haha. I live in California and at least where I live, I’ve never seen anything that looks that modern.
I’m quite fond of the way the church I attend looks. To me, it’s traditional looking. When I think traditional, I think my church or the gothic style. I think that is the term I mean to say.

Here are two pictures of the church I attend:

i56.tinypic.com/295rgo9.jpg

i52.tinypic.com/wvvpzk.jpg

I know that there are some Catholic churches where I live that are participating in the green movement. As far as new churches go, I wonder if there could be a way to do both “green” and traditional. I’m not too knowledgeable on this subject.

I find beauty in tradition. Since traditions are a big part, I think, of Catholicism, I would hope that that will encourage more traditional looking churches. Not saying the other is wrong, I just prefer the traditional style.
 
There have been many revivals in historyin regard of architecture and styles. After Vatican II, new churches are built in modern structure that something to me take away the beauty of the church. Do you this there are any hope for the revival of traditional Catholic architecture,at least in America?
Probably some, but probably not on a large scale.

There just aren’t many tradesmen out there that can do the kind of fancy stone carving and other features of a traditional type structure.

Further, the cost would be significantly more than a modern style, and there are limited resources not just for building but also for other functions in the church.
 
There have been many revivals in historyin regard of architecture and styles. After Vatican II, new churches are built in modern structure that something to me take away the beauty of the church. Do you this there are any hope for the revival of traditional Catholic architecture,at least in America?
Church architecture has always been influenced by culture. Its false to blame Vatican II for the modern designs. My last RC parish is 100 years old and its design is similar to those of Protestant parishes from the same era. I’ve seen a Lutheran parish that looks exactly the same. If we didn’t have the statue of the Virgin Mary on the bell tower, you wouldn’t be able to distinguish it from other Protestant parishes.
 
I, personally, prefer traditional churches; lots of statues, stained glass, and candles. I find "modern’ churches to be ugly and impersonal and empty-looking, but that is just my preference. I think that Churches should, at the very least, contain items that are consistent with our Catholic heritage and practice: Holy water fonts, the Stations of the Cross, a Crucifix large enough for people to pray in front of, a statue of the Blessed Mother, etc. Sadly, I’ve been in some churches that look more like a meeting hall. It saddens me.
 
a Crucifix large enough for people to pray in front of,.
How about a crucifix that actually looks like one? So many of the ones I see around here are some artist’s rendition of what they artistically feel a crucifix should look like.:eek:

I attended a parish I used to attend while I was little. It had been rennovated, and when I walked in I was disgusted. It did not even resemble a Catholic Church. The sanctuary was so plain. The wall behind it was literally white with a very small stained glass window of some colorful shapes. Also, it looked more like a stage than a sanctuary. It was raised up about two feet, with a set of stairs and a wheelchair ramp (:confused: Must be a building code thing) off to the side.

There was no crucifix that was carried by the crucifer. Instead it was a minimalistic cross that looked more like two broomsticks put together like a cross.

The “Adoration Chapel” where the Tabernacle is had glass walls that were etched, not with religious symbols, but with noteable buildings and bridges in the city. Oh, and the red sanctuary candle that’s supposed to be lit…it was a red light. Not even one of those phoney red candle lights, but an actual red light.:eek:
 
Further, the cost would be significantly more than a modern style, and there are limited resources not just for building but also for other functions in the church.
“Significantly more” might even be an understatement. The costs for some of the older churches with all the ornate detail in modern dollars would scare you. A $500,000 modern church might mean a $5,000,000 bill for an ornate one, and possibly much more if they decide to go with a stone exterior or something similar. It just can’t be done on a large scale.
 
I personally think that the “Green” movement will drive architectural styles in churches and every other building in the U.S. in the next few decades. These days, it’s all about decreasing our carbon imprint.

So does anyone know how the traditional cruciform church buildings measure up to “green” standards? I would think they would do pretty good compared to the clam-shells and boxes of modern times.
This will depend on what climate the church is in, and what measure you are comparing. As a general rule, a cruciform building is going to lose more heat and cold to the outside than a building that is square, round, or another simple shape, because it has greater external surface area. On the other hand, there is more wall space that can be used for windows, so lighting bills (at least in the daytime) can be reduced. Unfortunately, lighting is small potatoes compared to heating and cooling for most buildings.

It also depends on what you mean by traditional. In the US, most people would consider the height of traditional to be Gothic. A traditional Gothic church from the old days will be made of stone, which is a lousy insulator, although not terrible if it’s thick. It will have lots of stained glass windows, which are even worse insulators. The vaulted ceiling that soars above the congregation will have to get quite warm before it gets comfortably warm at floor level where the people are, and it will take quite a bit of light to illuminate the entire church. In the summer, however, the high ceiling will allow the heat to rise away from the pews, and if it cooled enough during the night, the thick stone walls will help maintain a cooler temperature. Hopefully there are enough windows that open to provide cross-ventilation, and hopefully the windows high up can be opened and closed without a lot of trouble, or have been fitted with fans to help vent the air.

Those are all considerations for a parish considering energy costs of a new church building to replace their current one. More often the decision has been made to build a new church, and the question is which one. If we are talking about a new building, a lot of the disadvantages I mentioned above can be lessened with modern materials. Like insulation in the walls, insulated windows, fluorescent and LED lights. But you can’t change the laws of physics, and a church which is taller, and has more external wall length will always exchange heat with the outside air more quickly than a squat, round church of the same materials.

One possible way to get around this problem, if you are devoted to the cruciform building shape, is to build an internal church as part of a larger building, so that the extra surface area is not against the outside. But this is tricky if you are trying to maintain a Gothic look, and I’m not sure I’ve seen this with traditional-looking churches.
 
Is vandalism an issue?

We have a lot street gangs who enjoy creating their art form using our city’s buildings as canvas. (I’m putting that nicely–what I really am saying is that they wreck things up.)

Are the older church designs more susceptible to this? It seems to me that a modern building is going to be less of a target. Or does it depend on where in the city the church building is located?

Also, if a modern building is vandalized, would it be cheaper to repair it? After all, you can just run down to Lowe’s and buy a new window. You don’t have to call in an artisan to re-do a new stained-glass window.

The older churches in our city, both Catholic and Protestant, have to put some kind of plexiglass barrier up to protect the stained-glass. Sad.
 
I guess what I’m trying to say is that I think that new churches are built with cost and practicality in mind, and that often means using a modern design rather than a traditional design.

I’m sure there are ways that a building can have a traditional look and still be modern.

However, is this really what you want to see? I don’t know about the rest of you, but I really despise the new house designs that mimic Victorian homes. To me, these houses look so fake compared to the real Victorian homes.

Or those “fake” farmhouse designs, where people living in the suburbs have houses that are supposed to look like a charming country home. No, they don’t, they look like fake houses.

I prefer more sincerity in the architecture. JMO.

I would rather see a new design rather than a “fake” traditional church. Architecture is a gospel in and of itself, and to me, seeing a “fake” design makes me wonder if perhaps what’s being taught inside the building is fake, too.
 
“Significantly more” might even be an understatement. The costs for some of the older churches with all the ornate detail in modern dollars would scare you. A $500,000 modern church might mean a $5,000,000 bill for an ornate one, and possibly much more if they decide to go with a stone exterior or something similar. It just can’t be done on a large scale.
The costs for building and maintaining traditional church architecture is actually out of sight.

Pittsburgh’s 1st Baptist Church, a traditionally gothic type building, spent $300,000 just to refurbish the top 1/3 of its steeple. It would have cost more than a million to do the whole thing, they had the steeple taken down and it was sitting in their yard.

Sure this kind of architecture looks nice, but with that kind of price tag, it isn’t going to become popular.
 
I do not believe that we have lost the necessary masonry skills to build beautiful churches. If you go to Las Vegas or Disney World, you will find ornate recreations of architecture from every period built to the latest environmental standards. Where there’s a will, there’s a way.

Many people today suffer from impatience, minimalism, and an enslavement to progress. They don’t want to spend years saving money for a quality building, but would rather get something built as quickly and cheaply as possible. They question the utility of excess decorations, high ceilings, gold leaf, bell towers, or cruciform floor plans. They believe that Vatican II somehow rejected everything before it as outdated, as if a new church had been formed from the razed site of the old one.

I see signs of progress toward our architectural tradition. High ceilings and Gothic arches are coming back. Some churches are being built in a cruciform shape, and most importantly, tabernacles are showing up behind the altar again. Keep praying!
 
The costs for building and maintaining traditional church architecture is actually out of sight.
FWIW, the most expensive modern residential structure I’ve ever seen cost $1,500 per square foot (above grade area) to build (actual cost). While the detail was stunning, it doesn’t come close to what went into the old churches.
Pittsburgh’s 1st Baptist Church, a traditionally gothic type building, spent $300,000 just to refurbish the top 1/3 of its steeple. It would have cost more than a million to do the whole thing, they had the steeple taken down and it was sitting in their yard.
Other issues are utilities. The costs of heating a church with a large cathedral ceiling can be stunning relative to a modern church with a lower ceiling.
 
I don’t personally believe that you need big large stones to make a church traditional (though it is nice). When I used to live in Vietnam there was a church called Saigon Notre-Dame Basilica built by the French. The church was not built with stone, but the architecture is beautiful enough to make it traditional. It is not about what materials you use, but about the frame of mind that the architect has when he’s building it. Unfortunately, many of our architects now don’t consider aethestic beauty to be part of a church anymore. What we need is to inform people, show them the beauty of our traditions, so that hopefully when a new church is built, we can find some traditions to it.
 
I don’t personally believe that you need big large stones to make a church traditional (though it is nice). When I used to live in Vietnam there was a church called Saigon Notre-Dame Basilica built by the French. The church was not built with stone, but the architecture is beautiful enough to make it traditional. It is not about what materials you use, but about the frame of mind that the architect has when he’s building it. Unfortunately, many of our architects now don’t consider aethestic beauty to be part of a church anymore. What we need is to inform people, show them the beauty of our traditions, so that hopefully when a new church is built, we can find some traditions to it.
I agree with this. I think it is also quite possible to produce a nice little church with good lines and proportions even with humble materials. The church I grew up in had been built with little money, and was obviously a 1960’s building, brick on the outside and cinder-block inside. But it felt like a church, it operated like one, it was fairly traditional in layout and not kitschy or over the top, windows were a nice size and the building had pleasing proportions. It in no way looked like a space-ship. It had nice stained glass windows added as funds allowed.

And it isn’t really true that to be traditional one has to have stone, stained glass, cruciform pattern, and neo-gothic style. That is one period but there are lots of others, a lot of them much older.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top