Traditionalism

[DavidJoseph]

I could possibly be moving to a new area, and among the parishes I’d have a choice of include an indult Tridentine parish staffed by the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter. I love the Tridentine Mass! However, I just don’t know if I should join that particular parish. Here’s why …

Now, when I say “traditionalist,” I normally think of someone who just happens to prefer the Tridentine Mass. Nothing wrong with that. However, I’ve come across a LOT of Catholic traditionalists who would be best described as dissident traditionalists – mainly online. And yet few, if any, of the dissident traditionalists I’ve seen are members of the SSPX or other schismatic groups, nor do they go to independent chapels. They go to indult Masses! From what I’ve seen, most of these characteristics describe the people to whom I refer:

1. They tend to be very critical of Pope John Paul II for everything under the sun.
2. Rather than just merely personally preferring the Tridentine Mass, they may think the Novus Ordo in and of itself is a travesty. And they may or may not question the validity of the Novus Ordo Mass.
3. They often tend to be Feeneyites, that is, they take the dogma of “no salvation outside the Church” to the extreme and claim that ONLY Catholics and no one else can go to heaven. Feeneyism also denies the doctrines of baptism of blood and of desire. And yet they would never admit to embracing heresy.
4. They tend to call orthodox Catholics “neo-Catholics” or “neo-conservatives.”
5. They may have extreme ideas when it comes to issues of morality. For example, they may claim that in order to be truly modest women should wear VERY long dresses (like near the floor) and should never participate in sports like gymnastics or swimming. They may even claim women should always have long hair and never wear pants period – not just tight pants.
6. Some may even claim that NFP (and not just the misuse of it) is sinful and that Catholic families must have as many children as humanly possible.

As for this indult parish I mentioned earlier, I know a couple people there – teenagers, actually. They hold almost all the ideas that I just mentioned (I don’t know about #6, though). And they said that all the girls in their young adult group think women shouldn’t wear pants, although not all of them wear only skirts and dresses themselves. I really hope their attitudes don’t reflect those of everyone in the parish.

Fortunately, the parish bookstore, at least the last time I checked, doesn’t have dissident publications like Catholic Family News or The Remnant. It does, however, have The Wanderer, which is not only highly orthodox but down on dissident traditionalism. I’d hope that would be a good sign.

So my question is, are there ANY Catholic traditionalists out there who are orthodox rather than dissident? And how common are they? Are they more common than dissident traditionalists? If so, then how come the dissidents seem to be more visible? I don’t want to upset anybody; it’s just that I’ve seen so many people who give the traditionalist movement a bad name, and that’s really sad.

 

[theMutant]

DavidJoseph:

So my question is, are there ANY Catholic traditionalists out there who are orthodox rather than dissident? And how common are they? Are they more common than dissident traditionalists? If so, then how come the dissidents seem to be more visible? I don’t want to upset anybody; it’s just that I’ve seen so many people who give the traditionalist movement a bad name, and that’s really sad.

I’d like to think that I am.

FYI: I believe that sedevacantism is still a banned topic on the forum. I participated in a few debates with them when it was still allowed.

If your interested in reading them…

forum.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=1240

forum.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=4355

forum.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=3760

Enjoy!!

 

[DavidJoseph]

But my post wasn’t about sedevacantism; I didn’t even mention it.

 

[DavidJoseph]

I also want to add that when I say “dissident traditionalists” I’m referring specifically to those who go to indult Masses, not those who are schismatic or who go to independent Tridentine Masses.

 

[theMutant]

In re-reading your original post, I find that I mis-read it the first time. I apologize. Anyway, I consider myself to be a very traditional Catholic and I hope that I am orthodox.

 

[pnewton]

DavidJoseph:

They often tend to be Feeneyites, that is, they take the dogma of “no salvation outside the Church” to the extreme and claim that ONLY Catholics and no one else can go to heaven. Feeneyism also denies the doctrines of baptism of blood and of desire. And yet they would never admit to embracing heresy.

So my question is, are there ANY Catholic traditionalists out there who are orthodox rather than dissident? And how common are they? Are they more common than dissident traditionalists? If so, then how come the dissidents seem to be more visible? I don’t want to upset anybody; it’s just that I’ve seen so many people who give the traditionalist movement a bad name, and that’s really sad.

Don’t you find it to be a sad irony when someone embraces this belief so much that they themselves step outside the Church.

I have found many fine and well balanced traditionalist on these forums. The extremists tend to come in waves, try to convert a few and then are either banned or leave. I am not going to mention names, but if you read around you will notice many people here that will espouse the virtues of Latin and the Tridentine Mass one time, then defend the Holy Father and rights of other Catholics another time.

I am always grateful to see solid Catholics of any stripe remain faithful to the Church.

 

[DavidJoseph]

… would anyone else care to add anything?

 

[Brian_Crane]

DavidJoseph:

So my question is, are there ANY Catholic traditionalists out there who are orthodox rather than dissident?

Come on, of course there are. Why are a couple of teenagers scaring you? I attend an FSSP parish. Some people are more orthodox than others. I don’t know anyone resembling the “dissidents” that you described, but there may be a few. Most of the women wear veils some don’t. Most dress modestly, but I know that some women are more strict about what they allow their daughters to wear than others. But everyone gets along. If you love the TLM, I guess I don’t see what the big deal is. Go to any Novus Ordo parish and you’re likely to find the flip side of dissident traditionalists:

1. People who think that a Pope’s words, actions or perhaps more importantly, his inactions should never be scrutinized or discussed.
2. People who are think Latin Mass is a relic – something from the harsh, cold, and divisive pre-Concilar days.
3. People who have stopped believing in the reality of Hell and perhaps of purgatory. They believe that all people of good will enter heaven. Ever heard any funeral eulogies lately?
4. They tend to call Latin Mass goers Rad-Trads, or rigid, or judgemental.
5. They may have extreme ideas when it comes to issues of morality. They may see nothing wrong with wearing short skirts or low cut blouses at Mass. They scoff at veils.
6. They don’t worry about NFP because they are contracepting.

I split my time between a N.O. parish and an FSSP parish. It just seems to me that you will have to “deal” with people no matter where you go. Good luck.

 

[DavidJoseph]

Hmmm … why are a couple teenagers scaring me indeed? Maybe I should look at it this way – when we’re that age we still think we know it all. Right?

Btw, I just thought of another characteristic of the dissident traditionalist (yet non-schismatic though getting close to there) Catholics I’ve come in contact with – they think Vatican II was an abomination and blame many of the Church’s problems on that instead of what liberal-minded cafeteria Catholics call the “spirit of Vatican II.”

 

[moira]

DavidJoseph:

Now, when I say “traditionalist,” I normally think of someone who just happens to prefer the Tridentine Mass.

So my question is, are there ANY Catholic traditionalists out there who are orthodox rather than dissident? And how common are they? Are they more common than dissident traditionalists? If so, then how come the dissidents seem to be more visible? I don’t want to upset anybody; it’s just that I’ve seen so many people who give the traditionalist movement a bad name, and that’s really sad.

I’m orthodox and not dissident. I believe in everything the Catholic Church teaches. And I don’t think I would call it a ‘traditionalist movement’. I didn’t know I was in a ‘movement’ ; I just thought I preferred the Tridentine Mass.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

 

[dumspirospero]

I am a convert and only 25 years old…yet I have always been a traditionalist and a conservative my whole life…I was immediately drawn to the Latin Mass…and Indult TLM is offered at a local Parish…and I usually spend half of my time there and half of my time at the Novus Ordo…I love both of them, but I prefer the TLM…not because I feel it is better or makes me holier…I just enjoy it more, because it is like witnessing history…I like to hold on to tradition…but I am very Orthodox and I believe Vatican II made some necessary changes and I support JPII 100%…what I try to do is hold on to all the practices that were around prior to 1962…but since that time, have not been banned, but have become optional such as fasting.