Traditions

[steido01]

I thank all of the most recent respondents, this is much more of I was looking for. I like this site for the number people of here that will take topics more thoughtfully serious. There are of course some more aggressive members and some I’m worried about how they regard their fellow man; but that’s not the majority of course.

To some points brought up. I did indeed feel the attacks of some Protestant groups, especially in college, but that is a very vocal minority.

For my part I’ve generally looked at myself as an Ecumenical realist, that will upset some conservative friends of course. We live a few miles from one of the larger and more influential mega churches. I’ve been there a couple times to see what they are about. They seem to be reasonably Ecumenical in their views and behavior. The service isn’t really that deep; one associate pastor giving a flashy and acted out sermon; some sort of inspirational talk usually by a famous person; invitations to come to know Christ; and so on.

Is this sort of Mega church experience one that really resonates with Catholics, Orthodox, and Mainline Protestants? Not really, but the reality is Christianity is already or will soon not be a default cultural experience in this country. There are plenty of unchurched people out there for whom the highly symbolic, deeper experience, and extensive theology of these churches, is confusing and foreign. This divide can’t easily be crossed with drums and electric guitars in the long established denominations.

There is plenty disdain for the apparent superficially of some of these mega churches. I have no doubt however that there are some members with very deep faiths attending or often instrumental in the running of these churches. The mega church next us I’m near certain has a core group of people that are really the "members’; something akin to being confirmed. I look at this type of church as the most effective source, if not the experts, in getting Christians in the door and baptized. One most also not forget that a reasonable number will become core members of these churches or even migrate over to the more established churches.

I see that we must have some humility in people not “joining” our group. People will join a church that speaks to them. Yes you may have reservations about this and not view their choice of church the fully correct way; but Christians they still are and that is a great thing.

Please correct me if I’ve misunderstood you, but are you advocating that ‘traditional’ churches adopt the mega church model because the sum of Christian doctrine is to get people “in the door and baptized?”

Friend, the goal must be to bring them to the fullness of Truth, or they’ll go out those doors as quickly as they came in – forgetting their baptism before the water’s even dried.

Coming to Truth is neither an easy nor a short process. In today’s Western Culture, the very first steps of this process may be helped, initially, by rock bands and other ‘seeker-sensitive’ gimmicks employed by mega churches. But whatever faith is planted there quickly withers because it has no root. The overuse of feelings leaves folks numb. The lack of logic leaves folks unsatisfied.

That our “highly symbolic, deeper experience, and extensive theology” is foreign to the world is to be expected. The world is sinful and broken. It thrives on feelings and logic instead of Truth. The world will never want What we have to “sell.” That’s why all these mega churches are constantly “re-branding” themselves to avoid their inevitable folding/splintering/death. In other words, they’re so focused on how to say things, they neglect What needs be proclaimed. When they do that, they cease to be church.

Truth matters. Truth matters more than the appearance of ecumenicalism.

 

[PJH_74]

Please correct me if I’ve misunderstood you, but are you advocating that ‘traditional’ churches adopt the mega church model because the sum of Christian doctrine is to get people “in the door and baptized?”

Absolutely not.

Friend, the goal must be to bring them to the fullness of Truth, or they’ll go out those doors as quickly as they came in – forgetting their baptism before the water’s even dried.

Coming to Truth is neither an easy nor a short process. In today’s Western Culture, the very first steps of this process may be helped, initially, by rock bands and other ‘seeker-sensitive’ gimmicks employed by mega churches. But whatever faith is planted there quickly withers because it has no root. The overuse of feelings leaves folks numb. The lack of logic leaves folks unsatisfied.

That our “highly symbolic, deeper experience, and extensive theology” is foreign to the world is to be expected. The world is sinful and broken. It thrives on feelings and logic instead of Truth. The world will never want What we have to “sell.” That’s why all these mega churches are constantly “re-branding” themselves to avoid their inevitable folding/splintering/death. In other words, they’re so focused on how to say things, they neglect What needs be proclaimed. When they do that, they cease to be church.

Truth matters. Truth matters more than the appearance of ecumenicalism.

I have not real dispute with what you are saying. Yes, I believe there are deeper truths to be had. But, even if they are weaker Christians, they still are. They may move on to churches with more depth. At very least these churches help keep the whisper of Christianity in the general population’s ear.

 

[steido01]

I have not real dispute with what you are saying. Yes, I believe there are deeper truths to be had. But, even if they are weaker Christians, they still are.

Then can you clarify what, exactly, you’re saying? Maybe phrase it as a question?
I guess I’m uncertain who you’re speaking to or what the argument you’re making is.

They may move on to churches with more depth.

Or more likely, as the data in nearly ever study shows, they’ll become non-practicing or agnostic folk when the feelings wear off, or Mr. Cool Pastor moves on/resigns in disgrace, or they find the ‘Christianity’ to which they’ve been exposed to be little more than a Sunday self-help seminar.

At very least these churches help keep the whisper of Christianity in the general population’s ear.

The church isn’t called to whisper; it’s called to witness.

There’s a mega church near me. Popular spot for young families. Why? Because it took over a local strip mall, including the playplace and carnival, which are now free for members to use. They even have “service” in and on the playground. Families get to enjoy their fun culture, while soaking in a “whisper” of Christianity. Care to guess how many of them remain members when they’re too big to fit in the slides? They’re constantly recruiting new members to replace those they’ve lost.

In contrast, there are three thriving churches down the street (they happen to be Catholic, Lutheran and Methodist). These churches are rather traditional by most standards (though the Catholic service does have several contemporary guitary-style masses). They’re stable. If they’re growing, it’s not very quickly. But the people there are being fed. They aren’t leaving craving more. Why? Because these churches build communities within themselves. They are a counter-culture to the culture. They aren’t trying to be something they’re not.

 

[PJH_74]

Then can you clarify what, exactly, you’re saying? Maybe phrase it as a question? I guess I’m uncertain who you’re speaking to or what the argument you’re making is

I think you and I share the same basic views. The only difference I think is that I see the potential impact of the Mega church more positively (no criticism of you) than you do.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

I thank all of the most recent respondents, this is much more of I was looking for. I like this site for the number people of here that will take topics more thoughtfully serious. There are of course some more aggressive members and some I’m worried about how they regard their fellow man; but that’s not the majority of course.

To some points brought up. I did indeed feel the attacks of some Protestant groups, especially in college, but that is a very vocal minority.

For my part I’ve generally looked at myself as an Ecumenical realist, that will upset some conservative friends of course. We live a few miles from one of the larger and more influential mega churches. I’ve been there a couple times to see what they are about. They seem to be reasonably Ecumenical in their views and behavior. The service isn’t really that deep; one associate pastor giving a flashy and acted out sermon; some sort of inspirational talk usually by a famous person; invitations to come to know Christ; and so on.

Is this sort of Mega church experience one that really resonates with Catholics, Orthodox, and Mainline Protestants? Not really, but the reality is Christianity is already or will soon not be a default cultural experience in this country. There are plenty of unchurched people out there for whom the highly symbolic, deeper experience, and extensive theology of these churches, is confusing and foreign. This divide can’t easily be crossed with drums and electric guitars in the long established denominations.

There is plenty disdain for the apparent superficially of some of these mega churches. I have no doubt however that there are some members with very deep faiths attending or often instrumental in the running of these churches. The mega church next us I’m near certain has a core group of people that are really the "members’; something akin to being confirmed. I look at this type of church as the most effective source, if not the experts, in getting Christians in the door and baptized. One most also not forget that a reasonable number will become core members of these churches or even migrate over to the more established churches.

I see that we must have some humility in people not “joining” our group. People will join a church that speaks to them. Yes you may have reservations about this and not view their choice of church the fully correct way; but Christians they still are and that is a great thing.

I attended a mega-Church (Non denom) for many years. It’s seen on stations like TBN daily.

I loved the music and sort of miss that aspect of it- but I can see it on TV or Facebook. So I’ll watch from time to time.

Now the negatives…

You can attend these sort of Churches for years and live in your own little bubble and never get to know anybody. I remember filling out a card for cell group/bible studies and never receiving a call back or letter or anything.

And you likely won’t meet the pastor because he’s big time now and surrounded by a secret service like crew of security. So you talk to elders or associate pastors, not the guy giving the sermon that you may or may not have questions about. It’s about as impersonal as you can get.

Speaking of the Pastor being big time - they sometimes get too much influence and want to use their pulpit for political views. Not only is this a turn off, but it’s also dangerous for the ministry as they can lose tax exempt status by doing so. I’ve even seen a pastor start endorsing Mormons just because they are Republicans. So which is it? You stand for truth, pastor, or you are more worried about your political party?

And the Gospel get’s perverted imo…in order for the Pastor to justify his lavish lifestyle.Suffering is seen as more of a curse - it must be a lack of faith if you aren’t doing well physically, financially, or otherwise.

Speaking of lavish lifestyles - they may guilt shame you for not tithing 10%. And they will quote Malachi and say you are robbing God so it’s no wonder why you aren’t doing well in life.

And you are likely going to also get a female pastor by default…meaning, the mega-pastor has a wife who believes she is called to be a pastor. This one surprises me because for those subscribing to Sola Scriptura, the directive against this seems clear as day.

Overall - unless Donnie McClurkin is town doing a show, I don’t recommend these mega Churches. If you aren’t going to be Catholic(speaking to anyone in general) then find a smaller Protestant Church where you can meet your new Church family and get more nourished spiritually.

 

[PJH_74]

You are a good example of the point I was trying to make, some people will eventually move onto churchs with deeper theology. Indeed the pastor is hard to reach and some can be excessive in their wealth. That is disturbing, but not all of them are that way.

I do however have to vehemently disagree with female pastors, they are highly important to the growth and renewal of church leadership. There’s a level of patriarchy in churches that many don’t notice or don’t want to.

 

[steido01]

I do however have to vehemently disagree with female pastors, they are highly important to the growth and renewal of church leadership. There’s a level of patriarchy in churches that many don’t notice or don’t want to.

Sorry, friend. We most certainly do not have the same basic views. We are of a different spirit.