Transgender Issues

[Zoe_Brain]

Bearing in mind that the American Catholic Bishops have just ceased being neutral on the subject of a law giving employment rights for Gays, because the 2009 version also includes the Transgendered…
From a friend of mine.

I was going to write a different post. It was a bit more cheerful. But the cheer has left.

In the process of writing it, I learned that one of my T-Daughters has passed away.

She was beaten and dumped in an alley and left for dead. To many, she was just another Native gal.

She was found and taken to a hospital, and despite some strong efforts, she’s passed away.

May she have the peace she needed.

We met at TIH. She’d come in from the street, skinny and bedraggled and yet there was a spirit in her that I envied. THe moment we saw each other we formed a bond that was never broken. She was the first gal to call me mom, my first t-daughter. We helped each other, even as she fought some personal demons that I knew would lead to this, and I did my best, and my best was never good enough.

Let your God’s love embrace you, little Tae. You deserve it.

Rest, child. Rest.

Another name for the Transgendered Day of Remembrance in 2010. There were over 120 names on it in 2009.

 

[rmbrulotte]

I don’t see how the deaths of these people has anything to do with Catholic bishops? Am I dense?

 

[Zoe_Brain]

I don’t see how the deaths of these people has anything to do with Catholic bishops?

It’s just that the American Catholic Bishops stated that such people should not be accorded equal rights, as that would violate others rights of privacy and association. That employment discrimination when applied to Gays is unjust, but the same discrimination when applied to girls like her are not.

You’ll find a copy of their letter not on their website, but in the Jesuit magazine “America”.

People who have been rendered unemployable and homeless because of such discrimination - often not even homeless shelters take them in - end up victims of violence like this all too often. I’m almost certain the American Catholic Bishops regret that deeply, they just think there are more important issues involved. To wit, Privacy and Association. The same issues that were used to justify segregation in the past.

 

[JohnDamian]

Unlike segragation, people with “Transgender Issues” choose to be that way. If it affects their employment then it is their call to decide what is more important to them. **If **I wanted to walk around unclothed I would not have the gall to blame others for not wanting to employ me - it would be my choice.

I don’t see what the Bishops have to do with this; they only stand up for what they believe to be Moral; the onos is ultimatly on the individual in question when it comes to their external expressions – rights come with responsibilities. You have the right to be “Transgender”, but the responsibility to deal with the fact that many people find this repugnant.

 

[Jermosh]

Unlike segragation, people with “Transgender Issues” choose to be that way. If it affects their employment then it is their call to decide what is more important to them. **If **I wanted to walk around unclothed I would not have the gall to blame others for not wanting to employ me - it would be my choice.

I don’t see what the Bishops have to do with this; they only stand up for what they believe to be Moral; the onos is ultimatly on the individual in question when it comes to their external expressions – rights come with responsibilities. You have the right to be “Transgender”, but the responsibility to deal with the fact that many people find this repugnant.

This is not entirely true, intersexing is more common then people think. There are studies showing that people who are born with intersexed organs who are then “made” a sex have a high chance of growing up with gender issues. My cousin decided to do this to their child, “he” is now showing signs of misgendered stress.

 

[rmbrulotte]

I read the statement that you referenced. They ended the letter with the following:

While we regret we cannot support ENDA for the above stated reasons, the Conference would, however, be interested in discussing legislation that would protect persons with a homosexual inclination from unjust discrimination, without protecting homosexual conduct. We therefore invite further discussion with you and your staff on how ENDA might be amended to correct the various flaws discussed in this letter.

So, they state that they are not for unjust discrimination, they simply do not want homosexual conduct protected, which is what they feel ENDA would do.

I do not believe that people are out on the streets simply because they are transgendered and can not find work because of it. I know of many homeless shelters that are specifically for men and others that are specifically for women, so I can understand how that could be a problem.

I do believe the practice of “making” a person a certain gender at birth when it is unclear is unjust.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Unlike segragation, people with “Transgender Issues” choose to be that way. If it affects their employment then it is their call to decide what is more important to them. **If **I wanted to walk around unclothed I would not have the gall to blame others for not wanting to employ me - it would be my choice.

I don’t see what the Bishops have to do with this; they only stand up for what they believe to be Moral; the onos is ultimatly on the individual in question when it comes to their external expressions – rights come with responsibilities. You have the right to be “Transgender”, but the responsibility to deal with the fact that many people find this repugnant.

Is this open mic ameteur night or something??? I’m diagnosed transsexual , and I chose to be that way??? You need to readup before you speak on this issue again. You obviously have no clue to what you are taking about.

 

[aspawloski4th]

This thread is only weveral hours old, but has already proven to me the Need of the Directors of Laura’s playground to get NO-Judgement Texas project rolling and going. Marginalized transsexuals need somewhere to live where they can be themselves without worrying about all the effects of marginaization from joblessness to being murdered. If this project doesn’t get moving off the drawing board, I’m going to have to look for a new country to live in.

 

[JohnDamian]

Is this open mic ameteur night or something??? I’m diagnosed transsexual , and I chose to be that way??? You need to readup before you speak on this issue again. You obviously have no clue to what you are taking about.

Obviously it is open mic night… Transsexual is different to Transgender; Transsexual is a physical condition; Transgender is a self-perscribed gender role.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Obviously it is open mic night… Transsexual is different to Transgender; Transsexual is a physical condition; Transgender is a self-perscribed gender role.

Transgender is also an unbrella term that encompasses transsexual. I’ve been involved with the issue since Ford was president. There’s nothing you can tell me I don’t know already. Zoe and I when we speak use it as the umbrella term exclusively.

 

[lynnareyno]

I am very confused about the transsexual/ trans gender situation for a person. Please help me understand…this is what I think…that a person has genitalia that does not “match” the way they feel inside? They identify with the sex/gender opposite from their physical attributes? Which gender do they dress as, act as?..How do others know that they are not the gender they are identifying with? Thus how can others discriminate unless the trans gendered person is undressed. Do transsexuals or trans genders want to have sex change operations? If no…why not? Are trans sexually attracted to the gender of their physicality or the gender of their identity… i.e male physical , female identity is attracted to male?? If so, what are the differences between this and homosexuality?
I guess the biggest part of my confusion is how do others know that someone is trans gender? Is it obvious?
( does it become a problem for rest room usage?)
Thanks for help and understanding.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Shame on who suspened Zoe! If this is the attitude of Catholics maybe its time I leave the church. I have for many years defended many of the actions of the church from how it handled WWII to male ordination only and yes I am a right to lifer. But to do this to someone as meek and mild mannered as Zoe is very very shamefull. Remember this may be just a internet forum, but people read things and get ideas from places like this these days. If I end up leaving the church over something like this, I likely will not make much noise here, but there are lots of other places I can make noise, and will for a longtime. If I leave it won’t be to one of the harmless protestant churches, but there are others church that have very similer if not the same views that are tg friendly. I don know moderator actions are not supposed to be discussed, but this one went to way to far. The only actions I will not question are God’s, no one else gets that type of respect from me, not even me. I am not looking for discussion. What I am looking for is prompt reinstatement of Zoe with an apology andgo on with debating the subjects at hand. Zoe and I never ever got so thin skinned that we reported anyone aand demand their suspension or banning. I expect nothing but reciprocity in return

 

[aspawloski4th]

I am very confused about the transsexual/ trans gender situation for a person. Please help me understand…this is what I think…that a person has genitalia that does not “match” the way they feel inside? They identify with the sex/gender opposite from their physical attributes? Which gender do they dress as, act as?..How do others know that they are not the gender they are identifying with? Thus how can others discriminate unless the trans gendered person is undressed. Do transsexuals or trans genders want to have sex change operations? If no…why not? Are trans sexually attracted to the gender of their physicality or the gender of their identity… i.e male physical , female identity is attracted to male?? If so, what are the differences between this and homosexuality?
I guess the biggest part of my confusion is how do others know that someone is trans gender? Is it obvious?
( does it become a problem for rest room usage?)
Thanks for help and understanding.

This is only hypothetical, but I hope to help you understand. While I was born with male sexual characteristics, I am diagnosed male to female transsexual. If I apply for a job as the real person I am inside as Stephanie and get an interview. Even if I do my best makeup job amungst other things to present as a female. A few things will give me away. If I don’t do the makeup just perfect even though I shaved, someone with a good keen eye would notice the 5 oclock shadow. The face size would give me away to some, and to others my voice even if I use my best female voice… I could go on and on , but I think Id bore you. With me things are getting worse, putting up the facade of being male is getting harder on me slowly but very surely. When in female mode my blood pressure is normal, in male mode it takes 2 different blood pressure meds to get it down to just above normal. Anymore questions you can pm me, Ill try my best to answer.

 

[StephanieTS]

I am very confused about the transsexual/ trans gender situation for a person. Please help me understand…this is what I think…that a person has genitalia that does not “match” the way they feel inside? They identify with the sex/gender opposite from their physical attributes? Which gender do they dress as, act as?..How do others know that they are not the gender they are identifying with? Thus how can others discriminate unless the trans gendered person is undressed. Do transsexuals or trans genders want to have sex change operations? If no…why not? Are trans sexually attracted to the gender of their physicality or the gender of their identity… i.e male physical , female identity is attracted to male?? If so, what are the differences between this and homosexuality?
I guess the biggest part of my confusion is how do others know that someone is trans gender? Is it obvious?
( does it become a problem for rest room usage?)
Thanks for help and understanding.

My suggestion to get atleast most of these questions answered is read the book "True Selves’ Its in most public and college libraries. it’s concise, and prented in a very organized fashion.

 

[Jermosh]

I am very confused about the transsexual/ trans gender situation for a person. Please help me understand…this is what I think…that a person has genitalia that does not “match” the way they feel inside? They identify with the sex/gender opposite from their physical attributes? Which gender do they dress as, act as?..How do others know that they are not the gender they are identifying with? Thus how can others discriminate unless the trans gendered person is undressed. Do transsexuals or trans genders want to have sex change operations? If no…why not? Are trans sexually attracted to the gender of their physicality or the gender of their identity… i.e male physical , female identity is attracted to male?? If so, what are the differences between this and homosexuality?
I guess the biggest part of my confusion is how do others know that someone is trans gender? Is it obvious?
( does it become a problem for rest room usage?)
Thanks for help and understanding.

Its far more delicate situation that can be explained in a forum. The real issue is there is a biological and physchological drive for these conditions, and for many they cannot hide. As for apperance, it varies, most with primary female origin are able to pull off looking like a male with facial hair and everything, for a primary male origin thats not always the case.
In the end, I honestly do not know any transgender person who wants to be like that. For most its a differance of accepting who they are and being the brunt of society, or fight it and deal with massive depression and suicide.

 

[lynnareyno]

Thank you for your replies with information for me. I can see that it is a very complicated issue. I appreciate the book recommendation, I will check my library.I obviously don’t know enough to discuss this issue on a forum.
Thanks & God Bless!

PS. Does cross dressing fit in here somehow or is that a completely different situation?

 

[manualman]

Definitions on this issue vary based on who you talk to.

I’ve heard enough persuasive evidence from Zoe to conclude that there are a good number of people suffering biological problems out there that legitimately have nowhere to turn. My heart goes out to them and I have no answers.

I am also persuaded that there are numerous others out there with perverse intent that seek to exploit these innocent sufferers in order to legitimize their own sexually debased desires within the larger culture.

How to help the former without enabling and giving legal protections to the latter is a job the bishops seem to have a very hard time doing. They badly blew one sexuality and behavior call over the last 50 years (defending and protecting the value of celibacy in priestly formation). The last thing they probably are going to do is to risk being overly permissive again.