Treading on the edge of ethics

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CountryMom27

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We have two beautiful children - I would like another, DH does not. We are both active Catholics. I disagree with using ABC; DH insists on using condoms.

I know it would be wrong and I would not be able to live with myself if I did something overtly to try to get pregnant (i.e. damage a condom), but I fantasize about leaving the condoms in a warm place, using an oil lubricant, doing minor but not overt things to improve our chances of failure.

I know that these are wrong ethically and morally. I would not want to be tricked into having a child, and I respect my DH too much to do the same. Yet I feel so sad everytime we make love b/c of his insistance. I feel too like I am sinning even though my only choice is a chaste marriage, agreeing to a vasectomy (I won’t) or sex with a condom.

I’ve prayed on this for the past 2 1/2 yrs and nothing has changed except that DH is even more exhausted, stressed, and worried about his job and our future. I’ve offered to go back to work to save for this child but no. We can afford it - we are well off - that’s not the issue. Every discussion about it turns into tears and frustration so we just don’t discuss it. Our priest is kind but relatively out of it (he has a bunch of health issues) and DH works 80 hrs a week so sex together is rare as it is. I’m not sure what to do. I love him and would never leave him but I keep praying for a miracle that I don’t think will happen and it breaks my heart daily.

Please help. I don’t know what to do.
 
CountryMom27 said:
…
I know that these are wrong ethically and morally. I would not want to be tricked into having a child, and I respect my DH too much to do the same. Yet I feel so sad everytime we make love b/c of his insistance. I feel too like I am sinning even though my only choice is a chaste marriage, agreeing to a vasectomy (I won’t) or sex with a condom.

…

Please help. I don’t know what to do.
Click to expand...
Thinking about becoming a saboter, eh? Baaaad idea. What’s more, just plain dishonest. You oght be honest with your husband.

Wow, what a choice? Gosh! “Sinning, sinning, or, hmmm! Not sinning!”

I’m sorry. But I’m not in the least bit sure how you can call your husband an active Catholic if he violates you by forcing you to use a condom, manipulates your emotions, and takes a stance against the Church.

So not only is he causing you to sin, he’s showing a complete lack of respect and love for you.

Ooooh, Madame! It’s like they’ve been saying since day one! Just say no!

Or, look into that NFP thing.

Gah, lee, Ma’am! This thing’s got me mad! Why, the way I see it, your husband is, for all intents and purposes, a rapist.

(ahem That doesn’t mean I don’t love the fella. Love the sinner, hate the sin and all that.)
 
Just tell him no condoms, and if he forces it on you, that’s called rape. Tell your pastor asap.
 
I hope this doesn’t sound to harsh but I think you need to accept the fact your husband is happy with the size of your family. If you’re husband is worried, stressed and working 80 hours a week can you blame him for not wanting one more? I agree with Eucharisted, just tell him no ABC. While you would have a chase marriage, so would your husband. 😉
 
If your husband uses a condom, that’s HIS issue and sin, not yours. The posters above are wrong: you are **not **sinning if you tolerate his contraception while praying for his conversion.

Here are a couple of apologist’s answers on the subject from Ask An Apologist, and one of them addresses the desire to sabotage the condoms:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=22043&highlight=husband+use+condom

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=21761&highlight=husband+use+condoms

I can understand your desire to somehow sabotage the condoms and I can tell that you know it’s not right and you won’t do it, so I’m not going to fingerwag and chide you.

Your husband is not a rapist and I wouldn’t entertain such thoughts about him.

I think you just need to keep praying and hoping that he will change his mind.

You might also be able to talk him into NFP, which is as reliable as condoms although he might not feel as in control of things. This might help him because he’ll be in a state of grace and maybe more open to the Holy Spirit.
 
Eucharisted said:
Just tell him no condoms, and if he forces it on you, that’s called rape. Tell your pastor asap.
Click to expand...
Some of you guys literally amaze me, can you not hear the sorrow in the post or are you that closed off that since it’s a message board you quote CCC suggest that because a husband disagrees with the Church on 1 teaching he obviously CAN’T be a good Catholic and then suggest that a spouse try to set her spouse up for rape.

Dear Lord please help us become better Christians with a greater understanding for our brothers and sisters - Amen.

Look 90% of the Catholics I know, and I’m from a devout small paraish, ignore this teaching… including many Priests.

Dose that make it correct? No of course not. However for years the Canadian Bishops completely ignored this as well. They were told they must teach it and have… somewhat. At the same time many of the “Good Catholics” I know who actually lead me home in one way or another are either ignorant of this teaching or just ignore it.

So they sin… or do they? The culpability on this one can be great, just like masturbation there seem to be a number of variables that can reduce it from a mortal to a venial sin.

What I’m NOT doing is to suggest that anyone should go against the teachings of the Church.

However what I AM suggesting is that we don’t encourage people to break up an otherwise Sacramental Marriage because of one single issue. It’s kind of like the “looked at porn? - he’s an addict divorce him” posts. Get real and get a life.

To the OP - This is a difficult time for many people. If your husband is working 80+ hours a week (as are many people I know) work with him on this. Continue to share your feelings about it and talk with your Priest about what to do again.

Tell him that you want the two of you to share things fully but if he insist on using contraception and you desire the renewing of the marriage covenant then be with your husband and pray that he has a change of heart on the matter. From my understanding this is not a sin on your part as you are doing your part for his greater understanding. I believe there are some posts in the Ask and Apologist section if you want to give it a quick search to back up what I’m saying.

Pray about this and give this suffering you are feeling to God. Offer it up as many would say. Pray about it and go on but do not let is ruin your life nor the relationship between you and your spouse. God wants us to have an intact and happy marriage. Often one of us spouses fails at something in that regard. Be there to pick each other up. My belief is that over time that being together and keeping your relationship strong while praying about it will do more than rejection ever will.

You guys are in my prayers!
Joe
 
Praying for you, how hard it would be to see your husband reject the Church and her wisdom.

Pray, fast, fast, pray.
 
Eucharisted said:
Just tell him no condoms, and if he forces it on you, that’s called rape. Tell your pastor asap.
Click to expand...
:eek: Seriously?
HOPEFUL_IN_UK said:
If your husband uses a condom, that’s HIS issue and sin, not yours. The posters above are wrong: you are **not **sinning if you tolerate his contraception while praying for his conversion.

Here are a couple of apologist’s answers on the subject from Ask An Apologist, and one of them addresses the desire to sabotage the condoms:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=22043&highlight=husband+use+condom

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=21761&highlight=husband+use+condoms

I can understand your desire to somehow sabotage the condoms and I can tell that you know it’s not right and you won’t do it, so I’m not going to fingerwag and chide you.

Your husband is not a rapist and I wouldn’t entertain such thoughts about him.

I think you just need to keep praying and hoping that he will change his mind.

You might also be able to talk him into NFP, which is as reliable as condoms although he might not feel as in control of things. This might help him because he’ll be in a state of grace and maybe more open to the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
👍 👍 👍

Prayers for you and your DH! :gopray2:
 
Wow, I am so sorry you are dealing with this situation. I am sure it causes you great pain and anxiety.

Has your husband ever listened to Christopher West? “The Good News About Sex and Marriage” really changed my and my husband’s understanding about WHY the Churchteaches as it does. (We are both converts, ABC was not a moral issue at all in the Protestant faith I was raised in so it was all new and foreign to me.)

Now that we both understand why, we are thankful to God for the authority of the Church on this matter. We have both come to a place where we would never even want to contracept, and are right now at a point where we don’t see a need for NFP in our own marriage.

I was surprised at the answers given in the Ask an Apologist thread. I would assume both spouses are sinning when the marital act in contracepted. I hope it brings you relief to know that you are not, and that you can pray for his conversion of heart on this matter. I would also grieve bitterly if my husband and I were at odds on whether to have more children and/or whether contraception was okay.

PEACE be with you, sister!!!
 
I suppose with everything else you’re trying to do to get him to see the church’s teachings you have to patient, too. That’s so hard for you, and I’m sure it is tough for him. The whole world around us with the culture of death, contraceptive mentality definitely affects us all. Patience. Good luck and prayers to you.
 
God bless you for wanting to follow the Church’s teachings.

Can you get your husband to agree to go to a Marriage Encounter, if possible?

Keep praying. St. Monica is a good saint to ask for intercession, because it sounds like your DH might need a conversion of heart. You say he’s an active Catholic but if he’s insisting on artificial birth control, he’s committing a grave sin. 😦

Is there another priest you could talk to? Or perhaps a counselor via Catholic charities?

Good luck and God bless.
 
jwashu said:
Some of you guys literally amaze me, can you not hear the sorrow in the post or are you that closed off that since it’s a message board you quote CCC suggest that because a husband disagrees with the Church on 1 teaching he obviously CAN’T be a good Catholic and then suggest that a spouse try to set her spouse up for rape.

Dear Lord please help us become better Christians with a greater understanding for our brothers and sisters - Amen.

Look 90% of the Catholics I know, and I’m from a devout small paraish, ignore this teaching… including many Priests.

Dose that make it correct? No of course not. However for years the Canadian Bishops completely ignored this as well. They were told they must teach it and have… somewhat. At the same time many of the “Good Catholics” I know who actually lead me home in one way or another are either ignorant of this teaching or just ignore it.

So they sin… or do they? The culpability on this one can be great, just like masturbation there seem to be a number of variables that can reduce it from a mortal to a venial sin.

What I’m NOT doing is to suggest that anyone should go against the teachings of the Church.

However what I AM suggesting is that we don’t encourage people to break up an otherwise Sacramental Marriage because of one single issue. It’s kind of like the “looked at porn? - he’s an addict divorce him” posts. Get real and get a life.

To the OP - This is a difficult time for many people. If your husband is working 80+ hours a week (as are many people I know) work with him on this. Continue to share your feelings about it and talk with your Priest about what to do again.

Tell him that you want the two of you to share things fully but if he insist on using contraception and you desire the renewing of the marriage covenant then be with your husband and pray that he has a change of heart on the matter. From my understanding this is not a sin on your part as you are doing your part for his greater understanding. I believe there are some posts in the Ask and Apologist section if you want to give it a quick search to back up what I’m saying.

Pray about this and give this suffering you are feeling to God. Offer it up as many would say. Pray about it and go on but do not let is ruin your life nor the relationship between you and your spouse. God wants us to have an intact and happy marriage. Often one of us spouses fails at something in that regard. Be there to pick each other up. My belief is that over time that being together and keeping your relationship strong while praying about it will do more than rejection ever will.

You guys are in my prayers!
Joe
Click to expand...
👍 There is not one person here who follows the CCC to the letter. I think we need to remember that we are human also.

Kathy
 
Katie1723 said:
👍 There is not one person here who follows the CCC to the letter. I think we need to remember that we are human also.

Kathy
Click to expand...
No one is claiming to be perfect or to “follow to the letter”, what is required is that we do not reject, deny or oppose the Doctrine of our Church.

There are many here who accept, believe and defend every word in the CCC. We strive every day to follow the teachings of Holy Mother Church. When we fail, we get on our knees and seek the sacrament of reconcilliation.
 
Dtmccameron said:
Thinking about becoming a saboter, eh? Baaaad idea. What’s more, just plain dishonest. You oght be honest with your husband.

Wow, what a choice? Gosh! “Sinning, sinning, or, hmmm! Not sinning!”

I’m sorry. But I’m not in the least bit sure how you can call your husband an active Catholic if he violates you by forcing you to use a condom, manipulates your emotions, and takes a stance against the Church.

So not only is he causing you to sin, he’s showing a complete lack of respect and love for you.

Ooooh, Madame! It’s like they’ve been saying since day one! Just say no!

Or, look into that NFP thing.

Gah, lee, Ma’am! This thing’s got me mad! Why, the way I see it, your husband is, for all intents and purposes, a rapist.

(ahem That doesn’t mean I don’t love the fella. Love the sinner, hate the sin and all that.)
Click to expand...
that’s an insane post.
 
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