Tree of Knowledge and the Serpent

[lemondiesel]

Two points I would like to discuss, I’m sure more will be added as I think of them

• God Created all, even the realms of Good and Evil. He created the Devil, which is the driving force of Evil
• Adam and Eve represent Man’s first conscious act

God’s gift to us is free will, which if used properly, we are awarded eternal life. Yet in order to even give this gift, God had to create the realms of Good and Evil. Yet he needed some force that would present itself as an influence, giving us an optional choice. Without this, his creations would do Good, but only because it was instinct. They wouldn’t know why nor question.

Humans are naturally curious, and it reflects in children. However, if everything is “Good” then there are no choices for us to choose. God presented us the other choice, even the Devil can’t claim something evil without God declaring so. What is most worth noticing is why God declared the Tree of Knowledge. Knowledge is interpretations of reality, and diminishes the need for God. We can see this in today’s society, where many think the world and the universe work just the way they are suppose to; there is no need for God. Once the Tree of Knowledge was declared forbidden, the Devil becomes Temptation. Like being poisoned by a snake, Temptation slowly eats away at us. This was Man’s first “bad” act, which we were punished for. We were no longer apart of the pure Garden of Eden.

The Devil then had the ability to bring the Evil realm among us, which he did so. This now gives all of us the ability to choose between Good and Evil. I would also like to note that from this very story we can see that only God can Create things out of nothing, while the Devil is only limited to what God declares bad.

add- After reading over, this would imply that God’s view of Evil is necessary for us. He is always and eternally Good, and only used Evil to benefit us.

That’s all I got for now I guess…

 

[Julian0404]

GOD is all good, and cannot create evil as you indicate. HE created Lucifer - which translate to “being of light or brilliant light” as a beautiful and powerful angel and not as a devil as you indicate.

GOD does not view evil as necessary for humanity.

You are struggling with the whole concept of good and evil, and I would suggest you seek the (name removed by moderator)ut of a priest to help you understand.

 

[lemondiesel]

GOD is all good, and cannot create evil as you indicate. HE created Lucifer - which translate to “being of light or brilliant light” as a beautiful and powerful angel and not as a devil as you indicate.

Knowing the attributes of God, He created Lucifer already knowing that he would rebel and be caste from Heaven to rule the realm of Hell. In my view, God created an exact opposite, but it was incapable of being all Good. (as you said God is all good) Yet Lucifer has the ability to create his own realm and influence God’s creations, but only God offers eternal Happiness.

GOD does not view evil as necessary for humanity.

God tempts Abraham to kill his only Son, which will show Abraham’s faith. God uses evil for us to learn.

 

[Poco]

Two points I would like to discuss, I’m sure more will be added as I think of them

• God Created all, even the realms of Good and Evil. He created the Devil, which is the driving force of Evil
• Adam and Eve represent Man’s first conscious act

As to your first premise. I’m not sure, at least the part about “in the beginning” God created the realm of evil. He did create Lucifer (one of the greatest Angels) who has free will and, who succumbed to his pride and brought evil into the world. And yes, now the devil is the driving force of evil in the world. :bigyikes:

(oh, don’t give me any flack about my “in the beginning” quote! It’s obvious that’s what was being refered to.)

As to “Adam and Eve represent Man’s first conscious act”

Well, yeah! Who else was around before them to make “Man’s first conscious act”?

What is most worth noticing is why God declared the Tree of Knowledge. Knowledge is interpretations of reality, and diminishes the need for God

I apologize if I seem to be picking nits here but, it was the " Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil". A big difference!

 

[lemondiesel]

I apologize if I seem to be picking nits here but, it was the " Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil". A big difference!

how so? don’t we have to know how things work before we consider them good or bad?

 

[ohioszo]

The “key of or to knowledge” taken by the pharisees preventing anyone else from entering in to knowledge, and they themselves did not enter in. NT Knowledge of the good is fine. Knowledge of the bad is not something one aspires to. I guess one can respect the adage of not trying to figure out evil, it just exists. Moral relatiivism is when one may rationalize decisions that come from the evil one, in order to be like God. When we are caught, we may blame the other person, saying, that he or she told me it was okay. Any sin fits this! So somehow that explains the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Once you sin by disobedience, you know about evil! God said, don’t do it! Then we disobey, and learn about the bad, and may then actually experience the bad, the closing of the garden and being sent out to work and pain. Jesus christ came to redeem us and preached mercy. People experience the pain of sin. We feel the judgement acutely. We think others are judging us, but, it is often our own conscience, and God. He wants us to repent of our sins and come back! Thanks and praise to Our Savior! Jesus!

 

[grannymh]

Here is the Catholic teaching regarding the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
This is from the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition,
ISBN: 1-57455-109-4

# CCC Search Result - Paragraph396
**"396 **God created man in his image and established him in his friendship. A spiritual creature, man can live this friendship only in free submission to God. The prohibition against eating “of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” spells this out: “for in the day that you eat of it, you shall die.” The “tree of the knowledge of good and evil"symbolically evokes the insurmountable limits that man, being a creature, must freely recognize and respect with trust. Man is dependent on his Creator, and subject to the laws of creation and to the moral norms that govern the use of freedom.”

*****Adam and Eve knew what was right and what was wrong from the get-go.
To understand this, please read:

Basic Catholic teaching **regarding Adam, Eve, and Satan’s Temptation **
is found in the
Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, ISBN: 1-57455-109-4
Paragraphs 355-421.

The good news of Jesus Christ follows in Paragraph 422, etc.

One can put the word paragraph and its number in the Catechism’s search bar in link
www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

Entering topics is also very useful since the Catechism does expand on the basics and implications. . Do check out the references in the margins and in the Index.

When one enters a paragraph number, like “paragraph 355”, and then clicks on the opening line, CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 355 the following is under the paragraph:

»
»Table of Contents
»

 

[DanteAlighieri]

Knowing the attributes of God, He created Lucifer already knowing that he would rebel and be caste from Heaven to rule the realm of Hell. In my view, God created an exact opposite, but it was incapable of being all Good. (as you said God is all good) Yet Lucifer has the ability to create his own realm and influence God’s creations, but only God offers eternal Happiness.

Lucifer is not an exact opposite; he is a creature of the Lord who rebelled against Truth for his own selfish reasons. Yes, God was fully aware of what Lucifer would do, but God does not seek to bring evil into the world; rather, He enables us (and the angels) to choose freely whether or not to obey Him.

The misery and suffering resulting from evil can often be bent to God’s purposes, but He doesn’t need evil.

God tempts Abraham to kill his only Son, which will show Abraham’s faith. God uses evil for us to learn.

God didn’t “tempt” Abraham – he COMMANDED him to sacrifice his son. He then commanded him to stop after he proved his faithfulness. This is instructive in that God demonstrated He would end up doing that which He would not ask of us. This is not “using evil” at all. If God commands you to do something, you do it and have faith that there is good in it.

Peace,
Dante