Tridentine Mass

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mattjolley
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Mattjolley

Guest
Hi,
this is my first post on the forums, so i apolgosie if it seems a little incoherent!
I am a lifetime RC, and, as I am 21, a lifelong partaker in the “Novus Ordo”, but my question is;

Given that it seems imminent that Pope Benedict will make the Tridentine mass acceptable again (sorry for my choice of words, i struggle to phrase what i mean, i dont mean to cause offence to those who belive it to be acceptable, this is not what i mean!) is it possible for a lifetime follower of the new mass to enjoy the tridentine mass, if it is instituted again by the pope?

If i was able to find a church that conducted it, i struggle to see how i could partake, even with a copy of the 1962 missal, as i cannot speak latin! I could see myself immersed in the missal, and not able to interact with the words and actions of the mass going on infront of me, for want of keeping up, if you get me.

Any insight, or experience, would be useful to me, i would like to hear from any RC’s who, like me, are used to the new mass but have crossed to the tridentine, and how they dealt with not knowng latin, how long it takes to pick it up etc, or the old actions of the mass, or from forum members who are old enough to recall when it was the norm, and their feelings. i know this can be a contencious subject, and i dont mean to open a ‘can of worms’, or offend anyone! thankyou.

PS please understand i love the new mass, as i have been brought up with it,and will stick by it until (and after) the tridentine is ever given the green light from his holiness again, i would just like to try the tridentine if it is given the go ahead one day by the holy father, this is all. i guess im asking a theoretical question, about something i may experience in the future. thankyou and God bless! 🙂
 
I’ll give the short answer:

YES you can enjoy the Tridentine Mass - for the same reasons you should enjoy the NO Mass: the Real Presence of Jesus!!!

What there won’t be are: guitars, “altar girls”, blue jeans, miniskirts, or holding of hands, etc.

If you enjoy quiet time and quiet ritualism, you’ll enjoy the Tridentine Mass.
 
It is easy to understand why people who have only known the NO would be concerned about a TLM. I am no authority, and someone please correct me if I am wrong (I am sure you will), but it is not my impression that the NO will be replaced, but rather that the TLM will be made more readily available for those who want it. I love both masses, but I was brought up in the TLM, so for me, when I am able to go, it feels like I am home.
 
The TLM can be enjoyed now. It has already been given permission by JPII, if you don’t count John XXIII and all the pre-Vatican II Popes.

So if you can find one, go for it.
 
Catholic_Hammer said:
I’ll give the short answer:

YES you can enjoy the Tridentine Mass - for the same reasons you should enjoy the NO Mass: the Real Presence of Jesus!!!

What there won’t be are: guitars, “altar girls”, blue jeans, miniskirts, or holding of hands, etc.

If you enjoy quiet time and quiet ritualism, you’ll enjoy the Tridentine Mass.
Click to expand...
Will we have to dress formal or will jeans do? I don’t have the funds for a Sunday best outfit.

And BTW, John Paul II approved the use of altar girls.
 
goofyjim said:
Will we have to dress formal or will jeans do? I don’t have the funds for a Sunday best outfit.

And BTW, John Paul II approved the use of altar girls.
Click to expand...
Don’t wear jeans - go to you local thrift store and buy something more “dressy”.

JPII may have allowed the USE of altar girls for the NO Mass, but he didn’t make them mandatory, and the TLM forbids them!
 
I grew up going to Catholic grade school, I was an altar boy serving the Tridentine Mass, I have very fond memories of it.
I personally wish we would have the Tridentine Mass but have it translated correctly in English for the most part, but having some of the more familar prays still said in Latin and the Kryie in Greek.

Looking back on the late 50’s & early 6o’s I remembered people more dressed up, but that was true even outside of church, we were just more formal in our dress.

But I also seem to remember that even back in those days in general most Catholics did not go as dressed up as Protestant brothers did.

Trick
 
Protestants and Jews have us beat when it comes to dressing up for Sunday. We could learn a lot from them.
 
Don’t worry, ‘trendy’ services really arent my thing, and i’m only 20;)

I have a lot of respect for the Church, both the building and the community within it, and a lot of respect for the mass. The presence of the Lord isn’t something to be taken lightly. My local parish is run by a group of monks from the nearest abbey, that is ampleforth, so we get a very respectful, reflective mass, no singing, (apart from the sunday high mass) and certainly no hand clapping and no singing of the prayers 😃

But even on good friday, where the priest sang the passion, I just felt like id like to experience the TLM one day, and now it could be a foreseeable goal to realise, with Pope Benedict wanting to reinstate it.

I couldn’t be doing with the happy clappy trendy worship, so I suppose I’m a semi-traditionalist, couldn’t say im all the way there i guess, because im not accustomed to the TLM.
I do however love the Douay-Rheims bible,(is there anywhere to discuss it on the forum aside from the apologetics section?) and try to read it above my other translations. And yes, knowing that Jesus is there in the eucharist is why i love the mass, but i also obviously feel the words and the prayers have a strong resonance, which i fear i could lose if i went to the TLM, since i know no latin, this is my main problem you could say.

To finalise, i’d certainly not want to personally replace the NO with the TLM in my worship, because as mary bobo said, it won’t be replaced by the church overall, they’ll just coexist. I suppose i’m too settled, hehe,ive grown up with the NO, experienced the ‘all singing all dancing’ services in other parishes, and now have found a sedate and reverent place to praise Jesus in the NO. I just wanted to see what the TLM was like one day. Thankyou all for your (name removed by moderator)ut very much! And i’m sorry for the ramble, hope it pieced together somewhat!
Matt
 
“Protestants and Jews have us beat when it comes to dressing up for Sunday. We could learn a lot from them.”

And African-American have everybody beat when it comes to dressing up for church!
 
Catholic_Hammer said:
I’ll give the short answer:

YES you can enjoy the Tridentine Mass - for the same reasons you should enjoy the NO Mass: the Real Presence of Jesus!!!

What there won’t be are: guitars, “altar girls”, blue jeans, miniskirts, or holding of hands, etc.

If you enjoy quiet time and quiet ritualism, you’ll enjoy the Tridentine Mass.
Click to expand...
What about the poor, who can afford nothing but blue jeans? Would they not be welcome at a Tridentine Mass? And BTW John Paul II gave permission for altar girls.
 
Catholic_Hammer said:
Don’t wear jeans - go to you local thrift store and buy something more “dressy”.

JPII may have allowed the USE of altar girls for the NO Mass, but he didn’t make them mandatory, and the TLM forbids them!
Click to expand...
I’ll have to go in jeans. If I’m going to be turned away then that is taking away my right to worship. Jeans can be modest dress.
 
Mattjolley said:
Any insight, or experience, would be useful to me, i would like to hear from any RC’s who, like me, are used to the new mass but have crossed to the tridentine, and how they dealt with not knowng latin, how long it takes to pick it up etc, or the old actions of the mass, or from forum members who are old enough to recall when it was the norm, and their feelings. i know this can be a contencious subject, and i dont mean to open a ‘can of worms’, or offend anyone! thankyou.
Click to expand...
I love and attend both. I went to my first Latin Mass last month after 40+ years. I hadn’t been to one since I was a teen. I thought I might get lost at first and I had one of the red Latin/English missals that has the drawings on the side of the page and what is going and and where the priest is etc. I never got lost once and just last week, I bought my 1962 missal. I thought THAT might be hard to follow, but so far, I haven’t had any problems. But even if you are not able at first to follow along in the missal just the atmosphere if you will takes my breath away. Now I go everyday except weekends and I don’t know if I am quite ready for High Mass…LOL and I still want to keep attending my home parish. I guess we are very lucky here that we have the ability to go to daily Latin Mass and hopefully, that will be extended to everyone someday.

I think it will be an experience you will enjoy and you will come away with a wonderful feeling inside.

Good luck and God Bless…

:heart:Blyss
 
Mattjolley said:
Hi,
this is my first post on the forums, so i apolgosie if it seems a little incoherent!
I am a lifetime RC, and, as I am 21, a lifelong partaker in the “Novus Ordo”, but my question is;

Given that it seems imminent that Pope Benedict will make the Tridentine mass acceptable again (sorry for my choice of words, i struggle to phrase what i mean, i dont mean to cause offence to those who belive it to be acceptable, this is not what i mean!) is it possible for a lifetime follower of the new mass to enjoy the tridentine mass, if it is instituted again by the pope?
Click to expand...
I am a convert; I came into the church through RCIA in a NO parish; I was very very fond of all the people who helped me through my RCIA “journey” but as I had in my mind a sort of “vision” of what Catholic worship was (from books, movies,just general impressions here and there), I couldn’t understand the irreverence or the casual nature of the celebration. When some friends who attend an indult Tridentine Mass invited me to visit their parish, I was just sure I’d find what I thought was missing in the NO. At first, I was disappointed; I couldn’t see what was so great about the Tridentine, largely because (I think), it was celebrated rather poorly and the organist was horrible. But there was a little something that just kept me going back - after about six months, I was totally in love with the old mass and I never feel quite at home in a NO Mass, even when said reverently. I"ve been to EWTN a few times and even those beautiful Masses just seem a bit “thin” to me.

Just thought I’d share that in case you attend one TLM and think, “Is that all there is/” You may not like it particularly at first; my advice to anyone who is new to the TLM is to give it more than one or two tries. You can’t help but feel a bit lost at first and that can get in the way of your prayer.

By the way, the responses are extremely simple; you’ll catch on to them in no time.

God bless
 
Linda Robinson;2311337. said:
Or you may have a Mass where ther are no responses from the congregation. Ours has no repsonses but some have dialogue Masses where ther are responses, but they are pretty simple.🙂

Actually, I called the priest first, I was so nervous (no need to be though) and he kind of filled me in on dress and responses.

:heart:Blyss
Click to expand...
 
goofyjim said:
I’ll have to go in jeans. If I’m going to be turned away then that is taking away my right to worship. Jeans can be modest dress.
Click to expand...
Perhaps you can start a Jeans for God store that will give the Gap a run for their money. 😃
 
goofyjim said:
What about the poor, who can afford nothing but blue jeans? Would they not be welcome at a Tridentine Mass? And BTW John Paul II gave permission for altar girls.
Click to expand...
Have you ever noticed that blue jeans are not the garment of the poor anymore? They are quite expensive! This is not a reasonable excuse for dressing sloppily. I can pretty much guarantee that if someone who insisted on wearing blue jeans to Mass was invited to meet an important person, he’d be sure to dress in his finest. Does God deserve less? A person dressed in jeans would certainly be welcome at a TLM, but I would hope that he’d feel out of place enough to try to dress up a little more in future visits.
 
I can pretty much guarantee that if someone who insisted on wearing blue jeans to Mass was invited to meet an important person, he’d be sure to dress in his finest. Does God deserve less?
Click to expand...
Well said laudamus,

BobP The outward appearance is in one way, superflorous to God, He sees the inside. But as a mark of Respect to Him, and to not let others look at the speck in your eye, rather than the log in theirs, the norm is “Sunday Best”. (Human nature can be fickle)

Our SSPX doesnt have a dress code per se, other than no revealing clothes etc, but the vast majority of men wear suits and ties, and the women wear modest dresses and tops and of course covered heads, (Hats or veils)

Iccy:)
 
For the OP, Mattjolly:

I think the key is to understand the Mass. The parts of the Mass are the same whether it is the NO or the Tridentine. The language is different and there are some additional add ons and rituals in the TLM, but it’s the Mass.

If one is aware of the parts - i.e. penitential rite, readings, gospel, offertory, etc., etc., one will (with the help, at first, of the Missal) easily follow along.

You will most likely find yourself even more involved as the sacredness of the liturgy lifts your heart and mind to God.

I’m an old cradle Catholic, though, so maybe I’m wrong…but having lived most of my life with the TLM, I never understood the idea that we did not ‘participate’ in that Mass. I feel much more an active part of the TLM than I do otherwise.

Just focus on the Mass and what you know is happening (some things might take a little longer than you think they should - use the missal to keep up) but all in all, it’s the same, only more ritualistic. You’ll like it if you give it a chance and can then appreciate both forms of the liturgy. 👍 👍
 
In regards to hope that the Pope will allow the Tridentine mass good news he has through the Priestly fraternity of Saint Peter fssp.org/en/index.htm don’t let anyone fool you the Society of Saint Pius X are in schism if you care to read this article from Catholic Answers catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0304fea2.asp you will see why.

On the other point I am a Maronite, but lived a fare distance from the nearest Maronite church, so I spent the first 18years of my life going to the local Roman Mass (English), but once I got my licence I finally went once to the Maronite church and I have been going there ever since the mass was so rich and full of flavor, even though my Arabic at the time was almost nonexistent I persisted in reading the translations and watching what happens and within a month I had taught myself to read Arabic and follow along, now I know that people are probably thinking that this has barely anything to do with the topic and I should stick to the talks in ‘Eastern Christianity’ but three weeks ago I went to a Tridentine Mass and have been there the last three weeks lol see the Tridentine mass has one key thing that Makes so much sense although it all makes a lot of sense. What I am saying is that as a student of Theology not that I am an expert but it seems that most of my conclusions have been confirmed by my teachers, the more I read scripture and the more I study the teachings of the church I began to have a great interest in researching the sacrifice of the mass and the old Jewish sacrifices the focus should be on one thing and that is Christ’s sacrifice, one thing that is made very clear in the Tridentine Mass through the actions of the priests is that he is just the head alter server and is much more humble in him not facing the people in the same way you don’t face each other when you are at mass you face the Alter in the same way the priest does not also facing us so that we may get distracted from what is really happening.

Sorry if I repeat myself or don’t make sense but I hope you get the idea.

Also in as much as the Roman Mass is a legit mass it is very basic I went back to one about six months ago and didn’t feel like I was at church but rather at a social gathering,

I sort of made this chart of description but this is only my opinion and I know I am going to get critersised for it:
  • The Roman mass (English) = Dry Toast
  • The new Maronite mass (Arabic or Arabic/English) = a club sandwich
  • The Tridentine mass (Latin) = a hamburger
  • The old Maronite mass (only found in parts of Lebanon is a lot like the style of the Tridentine mass and is entirely in Aramaic) = Mezza (Arabic for a table of food)
God bless all,
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top