Tridentine Rite and Dominican Rite

[Rand_Al_Thor]

Peace be with you!

I have never been to a TLM Mass yet, but I went to a Dominican Rite Mass a couple of months ago. It seemed like it was nearly identical to what I’ve read and heard about the TLM (the only difference was saying “mea culpa” once instead of “mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa”). It was a daily Mass, so there were no songs, and it was a Low Mass, so it was spoken. Anyone know what exactly the difference is between the Tridentine Rite and the Dominican Rite?

In Christ,
Rand

 

[mosher]

Rand Al'Thor:

Peace be with you!

I have never been to a TLM Mass yet, but I went to a Dominican Rite Mass a couple of months ago. It seemed like it was nearly identical to what I’ve read and heard about the TLM (the only difference was saying “mea culpa” once instead of “mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa”). It was a daily Mass, so there were no songs, and it was a Low Mass, so it was spoken. Anyone know what exactly the difference is between the Tridentine Rite and the Dominican Rite?

In Christ,
Rand

By your location I assume that you went to Holy Rosary in Portland. There are so many differences that it would take a very long time to list them all. But you are correct that they have a similar feel. They are similar because the Tridentine Mass draws some of form from the Dominican Rite of Mass. I say that it is better to note their similarity because it reminds us that in the Latin Church there are different Rites that are similar to each other in form emphasising our western liturgical heritage.

The differences become more pronounced at a Solemn High Mass but some of the little differences at a low mass are:

The confetior is different
A minor candle is lit for the consecration
The canon is slightly different
The tone is different at different parts of the canon
The method of genuflecting is slightly different after the minor elevations
The position of the priests hands are different after the consecration.
Prior to the consecaration the priests palms do not face eachother.

This is just to name a few but in a Missa Cantata and as I said in a Solemn High Mass the differences are quite significant.

 

[QUICUMQUE_VULT]

Thanks Mosher, for that informative post!
The OP question has also intrigued me for a long time.
Please post more.as you can.
God Bless
Daniel

 

[mosher]

QUICUMQUE VULT:

Thanks Mosher, for that informative post!
The OP question has also intrigued me for a long time.
Please post more.as you can.
God Bless
Daniel

Ok well in a mass that is sung or higher the chant tone is slightly different for the Dominicans then the Benedictine tradition in the TLM. It is more simplified and focused on pushing through the prayer rather than meditating on it.

A significant difference is that when the mass is sung the Chalice is prepared after the epistle. The last gospel is proclaimed in actually facing North in a Solemn High Mass. The movements of the Priest, Deacon and Sub-Deacon are done in wheels (similar to a military Color Guard). When the clergy is seated a humeral veil type vestment is placed over their laps and hands. Most times when the Clergy and servers are standing at the altar they are in a cruciform position. The sign of peace is still given at a Solemn High mass using a Pax for the clergy and brothers. There is also a difference in the use of the patten (I don’t recall exactly what) then in the TLM at the time when at the TLM the priest blesses himself with it.

I find the position of the hands of the priest very interesting. At a TLM when in the orans position the priest prays with the palms facing each other and the only difference is after the consecration and before the purification the index and thumb are joined so not to do harm to the particles of Christ on his fingers. However, in the Dominican Rite the priest while at the orans position has his palms out in a submissive stance slightly further than his shoulders. However, after the consecration the priest changes from the orans to a cruciform position of the hands with arms outstretched but still with the canonical fingers joined.

These are the things that I am most familiar with. I was learning the role of Sub-Deacon for them so that they could have a Solemn High Mass but it never happened while I was around.

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

Peace be with you!

Thank you for those great posts, mosher! And yes, it was at Holy Rosary…I go there when I can (for their 11 o’clock Gregorian chant Mass on Sundays). They actually just had a Pontifical High Mass and Solemn Procession with Bishop Meeking for the Feast of the Presentation of the Lord, but it was the NO (though entirely in Latin). There is a church here in Portland that does the TLM every Sunday (St. Birgitta’s), but it is quite far away from where I live and at 8 o’clock in the morning and I don’t have a car. I’m still going to try to get to it one of these Sundays, though!

So I take it that other than some of these details of how the priest does things (and I do remember reading in the missal that day about the chalice in a High Mass), the actual order of the Mass is the same?

In Christ,
Rand

 

[mosher]

Rand Al'Thor:

Peace be with you!

Thank you for those great posts, mosher! And yes, it was at Holy Rosary…I go there when I can (for their 11 o’clock Gregorian chant Mass on Sundays). They actually just had a Pontifical High Mass and Solemn Procession with Bishop Meeking for the Feast of the Presentation of the Lord, but it was the NO (though entirely in Latin). There is a church here in Portland that does the TLM every Sunday (St. Birgitta’s), but it is quite far away from where I live and at 8 o’clock in the morning and I don’t have a car. I’m still going to try to get to it one of these Sundays, though!

So I take it that other than some of these details of how the priest does things (and I do remember reading in the missal that day about the chalice in a High Mass), the actual order of the Mass is the same?

In Christ,
Rand

Yes - for the most part that is true in every Rite east and west except in the Novus Ordo there is no longer an Offeratory.

 

[AJV]

mosher:

When the clergy is seated a humeral veil type vestment is placed over their laps and hands.

Are you perhaps referring to the gremial? It is used in Pontifical masses in the TLM.

 

[AJV]

In addition:
When processing to the altar instead of a biretta the amice is worn.

The preparation of the chalice is not done at the offertory

The host and chalice are offered together (this is common for other medieval rites)

The preparation of the Sacred Ministers (Judaica me, etc.) is omitted and the sentence Confitemi Domino said

St Domnic is mentioned in the Confiteor and the Misereatur is also different. The word ‘Indulgentiam’ is also omitted

The priest moves from the centre to the missal for parts of the mass like the Creed (and I think the Gloria)

The sentence ‘I shall lift up the chalice of salvation and call upon the name of the Lord’ said before communion in the TLM is said at the offertory by the Dominicans. Also said before the secret is the sentence appearing before the collect ‘Oh Lord hear my prayer and let my cry before You’ . The prayer 'May the commixture, etc. is said after rather than before the ‘Angus Dei’

The priest receives communion with his left hand (also common for other medieval rites)

 

[mosher]

AJV:

Are you perhaps referring to the gremial? It is used in Pontifical masses in the TLM.

Perhaps, I am not familiar with a gremial so I would not know one if I saw it. You may be correct in this instance.