Trinity and Prayer

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snowywinter

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Hi all,

I had a few questions about the Trinity. These may seem so basic but I genuinely want to know.
  1. What are the distinct roles of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?
  2. When we pray, I read in the Cathechism that all prayer in the end should be to glorify the Father. As Catholics are we supposed to pray to the Father mainly? Or should we pray to Jesus and the Holy Spirit as well?
I know that when we do the sign of the cross we’re invoking God in his 3 persons but wanted further clarity about the distinctions of the three persons and when appropriate to pray for each. Further clarity on this would be extremely helpful!
 
snowywinter said:
What are the distinct roles of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?
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Good question. If they are all “fully God” I don’t see how one can have any role distinct from the other. That would differentiate them.
 
The answer to your question 1) is in the Profession of Faith that we say at every Mass, which describes each member of the Trinity specifically and their “roles” as you put it.
They’re all one God and the Profession of Faith states that too.
I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages. God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father; through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven, and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered death and was buried, and rose again on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and his kingdom will have no end.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified, who has spoken through the prophets.
I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen.
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For question 2, can you please provide the exact section of the Catechism to which you are referring - the section number and if possible a quote? I am not finding it.

Any prayer you make to one member of the Trinity is going to all three persons, so if you pray to Jesus you are necessarily praying to God the Father and God the Holy Spirit as well.

It is perfectly fine to address your prayer to Jesus or to the Holy Spirit. The Church has many approved prayers to each that we say all the time, such as the Jesus Prayer that goes “Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me, a sinner” and “Come Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of your faithful, and enkindle in them the fire of your love.”

It is not more effective to pray to one member of the Trinity or another member. If you are at Mass, you say the prayer required for Mass or selected by the priest from the proper options. If you are praying privately, you may say any prayer you like to any member of the Trinity and all three members will receive your prayer because they’re one God.
 
KevinK is correct that there is a lot of overlap, but they are not identical, not like “me, myself, and I.” They are distinct persons. Look in Scripture for clues. Also look at the Nicene Creed

The Father is the creator, although the Spirit was there at creation (“a mighty wind sweeping over the waters”, Genesis 1:2), and Jesus was there too (“All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be,” John 1:3).

Jesus is the person of God who became man, and all that follows from that: his suffering, death, and resurrection, his presence in the sacraments, his gathering of us in his Body, and our eternal life and salvation.

The Holy Spirit is the mover and communicator. The Spirit appeared at the Baptism of our Lord and the Pentecost. Jesus promised that he would send the Spirit to reveal truth. The Nicene Creed calls the Spirit the giver of life, and we see this at the Annunciation (“the angel said to her in reply, ‘The holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you’”, Luke 1:35).

A closer examination of Scripture would surely reveal more about the distinct persons of the Holy Trinity.
 
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snowywinter said:
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For prayer, see Catechism:
258 The whole divine economy is the common work of the three divine persons. For as the Trinity has only one and the same natures so too does it have only one and the same operation: "The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not three principles of creation but one principle."97 However, each divine person performs the common work according to his unique personal property. Thus the Church confesses, following the New Testament, “one God and Father from whom all things are, and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and one Holy Spirit in whom all things are”.98 It is above all the divine missions of the Son’s Incarnation and the gift of the Holy Spirit that show forth the properties of the divine persons.
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Three different modes or aspects of God is the heresy of Sabellianism or Patripassianism. The Catechism explains the correct teaching:
253 The Trinity is One . We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the “consubstantial Trinity”.83 The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: "The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God."84 In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."85

254 The divine persons are really distinct from one another . "God is one but not solitary."86 “Father”, “Son”, “Holy Spirit” are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another: "He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son."87 They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: "It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds."88 The divine Unity is Triune.

255 The divine persons are relative to one another . Because it does not divide the divine unity, the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationships which relate them to one another: "In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance."89 Indeed "everything (in them) is one where there is no opposition of relationship."90 "Because of that unity the Father is wholly in the Son and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Son is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Son."91
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If I remember aright, I think CS Lewis described their roles in our prayer as Jesus holding our hand and helping us to pray to the Father that we receive the Holy Spirit.
 
Beryllos said:
The Father is the creator, although the Spirit was there at creation (“a mighty wind sweeping over the waters”, Genesis 1:2), and Jesus was there too (“All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be,” John 1:3).
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God – Father, Son, and Holy Spirit – is the creator. The 4th Lateran Council teaches that the three divine persons (together) are the principle of all things.

In addition to the internal relations and notions, there are the temporal missions. The Father sends but is not sent. The Son is sent and sends. The Holy Spirit is sent but does not send. Note that these reflect the eternal processions.
 
HopkinsReb said:
I think CS Lewis described their roles in our prayer as Jesus holding our hand and helping us to pray to the Father that we receive the Holy Spirit.
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This is one way of looking at it. Jesus is certainly our mediator with the Father, and we certainly do receive the Holy Spirit.
However, this doesn’t mean that one can’t pray directly to Jesus or directly to the Holy Spirit. Nor does it mean that we have to pray in a particular prayer form to each of those persons, such as only asking Jesus for his mediation with the Father.

If I need help, I can pray, “Father God, help me!” or I can pray, "Jesus, help me! " or I can pray, “Holy Spirit, help me!” All three are equally effective and all three prayers will, in reaching one person of the Trinity, reach all three.
 
KevinK said:
What are the distinct roles of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?
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+The Father, Son and Holy Spirit (bow) are distinct Persons but not separate. Everything that God does is the work the Trinity. If you look at the Creed (posted by TB), creation is attributed to the Father, redemption to the Son and sanctification to the Holy Spirit. However, all three Divine Persons cooperated in the creation of the world (c.f. Gen. 1: 1 & John 1: 1 et seq.). All three Divine Persons cooperated in the redemption (c.f. Luke 1: 28 et seq.) but only the Son has a human nature united to His Divine Nature in the unity of His Divine Person (c.f. Council of Chalcedon). All three Divine Persons are the Source of our sanctification but it is generally attributed to the Holy Spirit.

Look at the Athanasian Creed too (Cont’d):
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I’ll just observe that western Christianity has a long tradition of Patricentric prayer (to the Father), while Eastern Christianity has a long tradition of Christocentric prayer.

Just saying, we can direct our prayers to any and all persons of the Trinity.
 
I found an interesting passage in the Catechism about prayer to distinct persons of the Holy Trinity. I am not sure how to summarize it, so I’ll just leave a link

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p4s1c2a2.htm

and a short quotation
Prayer to the Father

2664 There is no other way of Christian prayer than Christ. Whether our prayer is communal or personal, vocal or interior, it has access to the Father only if we pray “in the name” of Jesus. The sacred humanity of Jesus is therefore the way by which the Holy Spirit teaches us to pray to God our Father.
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Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith. Which Faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the Catholic Faith is this:
That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one, the Glory equal, the Majesty co-eternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreate, the Son uncreate, and the Holy Ghost uncreate. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible,and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals, but one eternal. As also there are not three incomprehensibles, nor three uncreated, but one uncreated, and one incomprehensible. So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties, but one Almighty. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords, but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be both God and Lord, So are we forbidden by the Catholic Religion, to say, here be three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none, neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone, not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son, neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is afore, or after other; none is greater, or less than another; But the whole three Persons are co-eternal together and co-equal. So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.

(Cont’d)
 
Cont’d

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess, that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance of his Mother, born in the world;
Perfect God and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting; Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father, as touching his Manhood. Who although he be God and Man, yet he is not two, but one Christ; One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of the Manhood into God; One altogether, not by confusion of Substance, but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty, from whence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies and shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting, and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
This is the Catholic Faith, which except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved.
 
Reason is the handmaid not the mistress of Faith. The mysteries of the Faith - especially the Mystery of the Most Holy Trinity - are above reason. “To understand God one has to be God.” - St. Gregory of Nyssa
 
The Trinitarian marks can be seen or perceived in everything that God creates. Trinity is invoked when we do the sign of the cross. That is correct. Do you know why that is? The Trinitarian God(FATHER, SON, HOLY SPIRIT) created us in his image as we point to our (MIND, BODY AND SPIRIT-thru the heart). GOD THE FATHER IS THE MIND, THE CREATOR, INVISIBLE… GOD THE SON, JESUS IS THE BODY, VISIBLE… GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THAT WHICH BINDS EVERYTHING, HOLDS THINGS TOGETHER, SOMETHING THAT CAN BE FELT thru the heart.

Fire or flame is a representation of God. GOD THE FATHER IS THE FIRE, LIGHT IS THE SON, HEAT IS THE HOLY SPIRIT. In the creation of the existence of the universe, THE EXPLOSION OF FIRE AS GOD THE FATHER, SHINES FORTH THROUGH THE VISIBLE MATTER THAT HAS ALWAYS EXISTED IN THE UNIVERSE(GOD THE SON) WHICH THRU HIM ALL THINGS WERE MADE WHILE THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THAT WHICH IS HOLDING EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE TOGETHER, kind of like the essence of the gravitational force. GOD THE FATHER AND GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT work together in order for GOD THE SON OR THE VISIBLE UNIVERSE formedly designed to be manifested into being or existence … ALL THREE CO EXIST, OMNIPRESENCE WORKING TOGETHER all the time, everywhere in the universe.

In our solar system, SUN, EARTH, MOON make up the Trinitarian representation marks of GOD.
GOD THE FATHER CREATED ADAM by molding the material matter of the EARTH, THIRD planet from the SUN to be manifested into A HUMAN BEING and by breathing LIFE into his nostrils. At that time EVE was already part of ADAM but GOD decided to extrapolate HER from that body to create the FEMALE (EVE/MOON) that has the essence of gravitational force. In the small family unit that represents the roles of GOD, the FEMALE is in charge of the emotional bond that holds the family together. Science tells us that a big asteroid struck the Earth causing it to split into 2 pieces and thus the moon was created. So this mirrors the creation of human beings by GOD.

We invoke and are in presence with GOD THE FATHER, GOD THE SON, GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT during mass when we give our MENTAL prayers in praise and in thanksgiving to GOD OUR FATHER, then receive GOD THE SON’S BODY AND BLOOD and while we feel the indwelling warm presence of the HOLY SPIRIT in us .

CREATOR, SAVIOR, SANCTIFIER
THROUGH HIM, WITH HIM, IN HIM
TRUTH, WAY, LIFE
TRUTH, WORSHIP, SPIRIT
THINK, DO, FEEL
GOOD THOUGHTS, GOOD DEEDS OR ACTIONS, GOOD FEELINGS

In ATOM, (NEUTRON, PROTON, ELECTRON) are the Trinitarian marks.

Just expressing God or His essence from here on…
  • GOD THE FATHER, GOD THE SON, GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT
  • INVISIBLE, VISIBLE, THE BINDING FORCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
  • CREATOR, UNIVERSAL MATTER, GRAVITATIONAL FORCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
  • SUN, EARTH, MOON
  • GOD, ADAM, EVE
  • FATHER, MALE, FEMALE
  • FATHER, SON, MOTHER
  • FIRE, LIGHT, HEAT
  • MIND, BODY, SPIRIT
  • ENLIGHTENMENT, AWARENESS, PURIFICATION
  • DIVINE, LOVING, EVERLASTING
  • KNOWLEDGE, ACTION/DEED, SPIRIT
  • I AM, I WAS, I WILL BE FOREVER
  • PRESENT, PAST, FUTURE
  • GOD WANTS TO BE KNOWN, TO BE SERVED AND HONORED, TO BE LOVED
 
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Thank you all so much for your replies. It clarified so much! I truly appreciate it. Sometimes we get caught up in the details and lose sight of the overall picture, and that’s what happened to me.

I appreciate all of your responses!
 
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