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billcu1
Guest
Can anyone exaplin to me in simple terms the Thomist view on the trinity and how it relates to Jesus? Summa can be hard to understand.
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JimG
Guest
You’re not asking for an internet forum response. You’re asking for a book. Try F.J. Sheed: “Theology for Beginners,” and “Theology and Sanity.”
God is One: one in nature, one in essence, one in being. That’s his nature.
In his person, he is three: Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
One of the three–the Person of the Son–assumed a human nature to become man. So he–Jesus–is one Person with two natures–divine and human.
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hicetnunc
Guest
Can you be a bit more specific? Thomas’ treatment on the Trinity is huge; spanning questions 27 to 43 in the Summa and many places elsewhere. Are you asking about the Hypostatic union…the union of the divine and human natures?
It’s a good question though. The Trinity is central to Thomas’ whole notion of person and communication.
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billcu1
Guest
The hypostatic union and all. What about our nature? Are we 3 persons. What is persons? Which of these persons takes what part of us at Mass out of time and to the Cross?
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hicetnunc
Guest
Maybe the following link will help. It will take you to a St Thomas discussion group on this (and many other!) topics you are asking about.
I hope it helps!
readingthesumma.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/question-27-procession-of-divine.html
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empther
Guest
- There is only one divine substance and one God.
- How can there be three Persons? Aquinas points out that the three Persons are distinguised from each other only by relationship, not substance. All three Persons have all the divine substance.
- To each Person is attributed a specific act.
The Father knows. His knowledge is infinite. But only God can be infinite. The infinite Knowledge is the Son of God, the “Word” as John says. - The Father and Son love each other infinitely. But only God can be infinite. The Holy Spirit is the Love in the Godhead.
- God’s mode of existence is very different from ours. We exist because our parts were put together.
God’s act is his existence. He is pure act, as Aquinas says. This gives us a faint understanding of numbers 3 and 4 above.
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bzkoss236
Guest
We, humans, are one nature (human nature) and one person.
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wittgenstein
Guest
Perhaps an inadequate metaphor will help. When I dream I am 3 people. The script writer,actor and scenery designer. I am all 3 and yet I (as actor) do not know what the script writer has in store for me. I can be surprised in a dream (by a lion leaping out of the bushes etc). Jesus said that only God the father knows when the end of the world will occur.
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Aloysium
Guest
the scenery director and the script writer are both part of the production staff
if you believe that your inner most self is God (i don’t), you would then then have the dreamer, the dream (ego) and the relationship between the dreamer and the dreamed:
me, my inner most self and the ?dharma
these sorts of explanation don’t actually work for me
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wittgenstein
Guest
I was using a metaphor. I was not being literal. I was not saying that one of the three in me when I am dreaming is God.
For example, when Jesus said that the kingdom of God is like a pearl of great value,he was not being literal. And NO, I am not saying that I am Jesus, or as wise as Jesus! My point is that Jesus did not expect us to take metaphors literally and we should not.
For example, when Jesus said that the kingdom of God is like a pearl of great value,he was not being literal. And NO, I am not saying that I am Jesus, or as wise as Jesus! My point is that Jesus did not expect us to take metaphors literally and we should not.
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bzkoss236
Guest
My brother once described the Trinity to me to be similar to a family (this is not a perfect analogy, but it helped me).
Say you have a family with a Father, a Mother, and a Son. They are 3 distinct persons, but they form one family unit and all work together within that unit to accomplish the same goal, which in the case of a family could be to grow and love.
Say you have a family with a Father, a Mother, and a Son. They are 3 distinct persons, but they form one family unit and all work together within that unit to accomplish the same goal, which in the case of a family could be to grow and love.
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JimG
Guest
That’s a good analogy as long as one keeps in mind that the human family consists of three persons and also three distinct human natures.
But God is only one nature. The divine nature or essence is one. It is what God is. The question of Who God is, is answered by the names of the Persons: Father, Son, Spirit.
But Persons are not natures. God has only one nature. And intellect (mind) is a faculty of nature, not Person.
It is the Person (or Persons, in God’s case) who make use of the faculties of one’s nature.
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bzkoss236
Guest
This is why it isn’t perfect, but I don’t think there is a perfect analogy, because there is none other like God.
Another analogy I’ve heard, is it is like water existing as ice, liquid, and vapor all at once. It’s the same water, but different in states at the same time. Again, not a perfect analogy, but helps with the same substance part.
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Aloysium
Guest
just some random thoughts:
i am not sure if Eve was begotten from Adam
being fashioned by God as she was,
maybe Adam and Eve in the Garden
joined in love for each other
another way in which we were made in the image of God
i am not sure if Eve was begotten from Adam
being fashioned by God as she was,
maybe Adam and Eve in the Garden
joined in love for each other
another way in which we were made in the image of God
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Love4All
Guest
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Love4All
Guest
God the Father is the Origin, represented by 0. God the Son is the One, represented by 1. And God the Holy Spirit is the Love between them, represented by the infinity sign.
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Eric_Hyom
Guest
I wonder if the Trinity hangs and depends on the greatest commandments?
When Jesus spent his time on Earth, he would have lived by the greatest commandments, could these commandments be the greatest purpose of both God the Father and God the Son?
Jesus loves God the Father with all his heart, mind, soul and strength.
Jesus loves each and every one of us as he loves himself.
God the Father loves God the Son, with all his heart, mind, soul and strength.
The Father loves each and every one of us as he loves himself.
Could the spirit be the power of God’s love, working through these commandments?
1 Samuel 18, Jonathan became one in spirit with David, and he loved him as himself. (Taken from the New International Bible.)
Could God love us more than he loves himself?
Just some thoughts.
When Jesus spent his time on Earth, he would have lived by the greatest commandments, could these commandments be the greatest purpose of both God the Father and God the Son?
Jesus loves God the Father with all his heart, mind, soul and strength.
Jesus loves each and every one of us as he loves himself.
God the Father loves God the Son, with all his heart, mind, soul and strength.
The Father loves each and every one of us as he loves himself.
Could the spirit be the power of God’s love, working through these commandments?
1 Samuel 18, Jonathan became one in spirit with David, and he loved him as himself. (Taken from the New International Bible.)
Could God love us more than he loves himself?
Just some thoughts.
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billcu1
Guest
Looks like passive, active, and reconciling forces.
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Love4All
Guest
Yes!
No, God cannot love us more than He loves Himself, because Infinity is Infinity. God loves Himself Infinitely, and He loves us and asks us to accept His Love, and when we do, we participate in His Infinite Love for Himself.
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Love4All
Guest
There are many possibilities contained in it, I think. Passive, active, and reconciling forces are observable in Nature, and Nature itself was created by the Holy Trinity. So yes, that would be contained in this; but much, much more besides. Everything, in fact.
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