Trouble understanding Satanism..

[Being_Brave]

I’ve never really been curious about Satanism, but I think it’s important to have a truthful idea of other religions in case I have a chance to talk to them.

Most Satanists don’t worship Satan. They use Satan as an allegory for humanity. The Satanist I know doesn’t worship anything. He believe in humanity, and he is his own god and master. I don’t know much about Satanism, but I can tell you that it is not worshiping the devil or evil, it is about being fully human and embracing your humanity, and humanity in general, both the good and the bad. My friend is a humanitarian, and devotes much of his time to various charities and organizations, and is also an Eagle Scout. He is one of the most giving people I know, and he is a Satanist. All that nonsense about them being evil is all a stereotype.

Thanks to this post by Eris Discordia, I did some research and just found this, and it explains that there are different types of Satanists, which is something I didn’t know. I have had friends who are Pagan, but have never befriended a Satanist (met them, but was immediately put off by them. Not because of their religion, but the way they spoke to me or down to me in general conversation.) The whole idea of someone worshiping their carnal nature scares the everlovin’ out of me. Of course, I’ve only met a few, and they seem to be the kind that are actually Theatrical Satanists, but it still scares me.

I work for a police department, and I’ve seen what people do to each other when they go extreme and give in to carnal nature, and it’s dangerous. I can see that it’s not ALL of them that choose to kill, injure, or do harm, but I personally haven’t met one that hasn’t mentioned doing those things non-chalantly, because they only see themselves as being important.this is a generalization and does not include ALL, there are exceptions to everything.

I also found this which helps explain the source of Satanism. It says that Satanists believe that the being Satan actually freed humanity from an overbearning ruler (in the Garden of Eden) and gave them consciousness. It also identifies Devil Worshipers as similar but different from Satanists.

So, I’ve been able to understand so far…but what I don’t understand is the actual worship rituals. I’m not asking,“What songs and prayers do you sing?”, I’m asking about where it started. I’m Christian so I’m probably going to sound biased, but I really don’t mean to offend with this, it’s an honest question:

I noticed that a LOT of the better known forms of worship (i.e. Black Mass) tend to immitate or mock Catholic worship. When there are so many denominations out there to choose from who worship differently, why would a religion inspired by Satan choose to focus on immitating/mocking Catholicism in particular? Is it because Catholicism is the greatest/only threat? Or is it just that someone decided that it was a good way to worship?

Again, I know that not all people who are Satanists worship the devil, but from what I’ve found on “official” religion websites it seems that worship really does immitate Catholicism, so I’m curious why?

(If you’re just going to say,“The Bible says not to learn the ways of the wicked,” please don’t, I’m still going to ask questions.)

Thanks in advance for any information you can provide!!

 

[ChadS]

The modern movement known as Satanism all started with Anton LaVey in San Francisco back in the 1960s. He developed what is known as “philosophical Satanism” that is they don’t believe in a being known as Satan, that pretty much Satanism is embracing your humanity and pleasure and living your life free of the restrictions placed on it by organized religions.

I think LaVey wanted to keep the Church of Satan as a sort of loose affiliation of like-minded people. He wanted his version of Satanism to be a very do-it-yourself type of thing. As with everything else imitators popped up and he was forced to “incorporate” and distance himself from other Satanists.

LaVey never intended or wanted to have all sorts of rituals and the trappings of religion, but people in general want to belong to groups that have some of those things that give it an air of mystery. So he wrote the rituals and oaths and their “commandments” etc. to make it all very “official” and seem dangerous. From what I can find out the biggest obstacle to being a card carrying member of the Church of Satan is that you pay your membership fees and keep your dues current. Other than than not much else is required.

 

[Scoobyshme]

Keep in mind that Satan is the father of lies, and a murderer. Those who fall for this trap are blinded by some sin, and ignorance of Christ. They need our prayers and sacrifice. Otherwise, they will be lost. They really have no idea what they’re really doing.

 

[St_Francis]

Hmmm, trying to understand what a Baptist-Catholic is…

Anyway, thanks for the work you do Police officers risk their lives every day to keep us safe, so to me they are linked up with the military

As to your question, I don’t think you need to know any specifics, just understand that they are worshiping a being (which sounds like themselves) other than God for the purposes of apologetics. They are like regular secular humanists with a twist.

 

[IHeartAquinas]

As to your question, I don’t think you need to know any specifics, just understand that they are worshiping a being (which sounds like themselves) other than God for the purposes of apologetics. They are like regular secular humanists with a twist.

I would go a different route and say that Satanism is synonymous with Ethical Hedonism–that the only moral truth is what gives the individual the greatest amount of gratification. At least most secular humanists will at least admit to SOME amount of ethic. A Satanist would disregard ethics and morals because such rules would stand in the way of their immediate self-gratification.

 

[Laughing_Crow]

I would go a different route and say that Satanism is synonymous with Ethical Hedonism–that the only moral truth is what gives the individual the greatest amount of gratification. At least most secular humanists will at least admit to SOME amount of ethic. A Satanist would disregard ethics and morals because such rules would stand in the way of their immediate self-gratification.

Moral and ethics are a matter of opinion. In the middle east it is ethical for a woman to be stoned to death for dressing inappropriately but to us that is in-humane.

As for ‘Satanists’, they embrace both the good side and the bad side. They understand that humanity is a flawed and monstrous species with only its own pleasure and needs taking priority BUT also understand the good sides of humanity such as charity, purity etc. To me most satanists appear to believe only they control their souls and destinies and no other being, man or god, can interfere.

 

[Publisher]

“Satanism” was an invention of the church in the middle ages. There was never a “black mass” until the church invented it to persecute “heretics” by then claiming they profaned the mass. The mass was all the common folks knew…so it was no great surprise that the “details” of the “dark mass” mimiced what those tortured knew.

I know that in the 17th or 18th centuries the “Hell Fire Clubs” in some universities were formed. Much of the “myth” of the “witches sabbats” was also drawn from the “confessions” of the women who had undergone torture…and who would have said ANYTHING they were asked to say to stop the torture.

Satanism is the child of the church. Anton Lavey in the '60’s used much of the myths gleaned during the middle ages to formulate his rituals and formed the Church of Satan…Michael Aquino’s group broke off from the Church of Satan and formed the Temple of Set…major difference LaVey’s group don’t believe in a “satan”…or a God for that matter…Aquino’s group really does believe in a “Prince of Darkness”.

 

[kenofken]

As a Wiccan who has traveled far and wide in various occult circles, I have a few observations about Satanists. One, most of them are secular humanists who just don’t want to get hung with the tweedy think-tank imagery that secular humanism carries with it. Calling yourself a “Satanist” has more street cred and improves your odds with the goth chicks, apparently.

Two, Satanist are openly self-centered. Thery are Ayn Randish libertarian types who see no inherent use for you unless you have something they want or have important ties such as family or friendship. They aren’t out to get you, but they won’t generally lift a finger to help you and won’t think twice about inflicting the worst misery they can get away with in retaliation for any real or perceived slights. For better and worse, you always know where you stand with these folks. Three, a small minority of them are truly psychopaths and deranged individuals. I don’t think Satanism made them that way, but it is a very attractive philosophy for folks who live for nothing more than their own urges.

I’m probably wasting my breath on the prayer warrior types in here, but I will say it anyway: Satanists are not Wiccans or pagans despite the similarity in our uniforms. Most of us who have been around a while realize that Satanists are generally just Christians in rebellion. A dualist turned inside out is still a dualist in our eyes. We don’t follow Christian cosmology and doctrine, so why would we be interested in its shadow version? Plus these folks are generally no more tolerant of us than their Christian counterparts. Isaac Bonewits, who I consider to be one of modern paganism’s brightest authors, has a brilliant observation about Satanism. He said “most Satanists are Christian fundamentalists in drag.”

 

[ChadS]

Thery are Ayn Randish libertarian types who see no inherent use for you unless you have something they want or have important ties such as family or friendship.

I noticed in several interviews with the LaVey, philosophical Satanists that many of them cite Ayn Rand as an influence. It was almost an across the board type of thing, so it makes me think they take her philosophy seriously and strive to integrate it into their lifestyle and thinking. Makes me wonder if many of the Rand afficionados on here might re-consider if they know how easily her thought fits in with self-proclaimed Satanists.

A dualist turned inside out is still a dualist in our eyes. We don’t follow Christian cosmology and doctrine, so why would we be interested in its shadow version? Plus these folks are generally no more tolerant of us than their Christian counterparts. Isaac Bonewits, who I consider to be one of modern paganism’s brightest authors, has a brilliant observation about Satanism. He said “most Satanists are Christian fundamentalists in drag.”

I think your first point is very well taken. If you were a theological Satanist (as I’ve heard them called) why would you worship Satan in the first place. If you acknowledge the Devil is real then by default you admit God is real and so is Christ. All we need to know comes from the Bible about the Devil and decidedly in the end things don’t turn out well for the Devil. So if you say the Bible is wrong on that, as a Satanist, then you might be forced to concede that the existence of the Devil could be up for debate.

I love the Bonewits quote and it might be very true.

ChadS

 

[swariffin]

I’ve never really been curious about Satanism, but I think it’s important to have a truthful idea of other religions in case I have a chance to talk to them.

Thanks to this post by Eris Discordia, I did some research and just found this, and it explains that there are different types of Satanists, which is something I didn’t know. I have had friends who are Pagan, but have never befriended a Satanist (met them, but was immediately put off by them. Not because of their religion, but the way they spoke to me or down to me in general conversation.) The whole idea of someone worshiping their carnal nature scares the everlovin’ out of me. Of course, I’ve only met a few, and they seem to be the kind that are actually Theatrical Satanists, but it still scares me.

I work for a police department, and I’ve seen what people do to each other when they go extreme and give in to carnal nature, and it’s dangerous. I can see that it’s not ALL of them that choose to kill, injure, or do harm, but I personally haven’t met one that hasn’t mentioned doing those things non-chalantly, because they only see themselves as being important.this is a generalization and does not include ALL, there are exceptions to everything.

I also found this which helps explain the source of Satanism. It says that Satanists believe that the being Satan actually freed humanity from an overbearning ruler (in the Garden of Eden) and gave them consciousness. It also identifies Devil Worshipers as similar but different from Satanists.

So, I’ve been able to understand so far…but what I don’t understand is the actual worship rituals. I’m not asking,“What songs and prayers do you sing?”, I’m asking about where it started. I’m Christian so I’m probably going to sound biased, but I really don’t mean to offend with this, it’s an honest question:

I noticed that a LOT of the better known forms of worship (i.e. Black Mass) tend to immitate or mock Catholic worship. When there are so many denominations out there to choose from who worship differently, why would a religion inspired by Satan choose to focus on immitating/mocking Catholicism in particular? Is it because Catholicism is the greatest/only threat? Or is it just that someone decided that it was a good way to worship?

Again, I know that not all people who are Satanists worship the devil, but from what I’ve found on “official” religion websites it seems that worship really does immitate Catholicism, so I’m curious why?

(If you’re just going to say,“The Bible says not to learn the ways of the wicked,” please don’t, I’m still going to ask questions.)

Thanks in advance for any information you can provide!!

We don’t know what is the true reason that somebody eager to call his/herself as Satanist. We also has to make sure, that it is not us who declare somebody as a Satanist. Whether or not somebody is a real Satanist, must be seen from the fruit of his/herself. Who knows that a man/woman whom we know to be a Satanist, in fact is the one who help somebody almost dead in the street, while all of us just look away.

The kingdom of evil must be united among themselves to be strong against the children of God. If the evils are not united, then they can be defeated easily. The evil force CAN give us wealth, comfort, perhaps health. But, the evil can never give us Love (Agape not Eros), Peace, Joy, Faith to God (Gal 5:22).

 

[Being_Brave]

Hmmm, trying to understand what a Baptist-Catholic is…

It’s a Baptist who has finally found the true Church, and in the process of learning how to live it

 

[Being_Brave]

You guys are awesome. Thank you for your help!!

 

[IHeartAquinas]

Moral and ethics are a matter of opinion.

I did not say they weren’t. I explicitly explained the Satanist’s ethic, and then explained that a secular humanist tends towards adopting some form of a universal ethic that applies the same rules to everyone, though I may have implied this latter point less explicitly and for that I am sorry if it made my point unclear. A secular humanist who does not believe in a universal application of their ethic, but only a personal application, by definition, is a Satanist in the LaVeyan sense of the term.

 

[Publisher]

As a Wiccan who has traveled far and wide in various occult circles, I have a few observations about Satanists. One, most of them are secular humanists who just don’t want to get hung with the tweedy think-tank imagery that secular humanism carries with it. Calling yourself a “Satanist” has more street cred and improves your odds with the goth chicks, apparently.

Two, Satanist are openly self-centered. Thery are Ayn Randish libertarian types who see no inherent use for you unless you have something they want or have important ties such as family or friendship. They aren’t out to get you, but they won’t generally lift a finger to help you and won’t think twice about inflicting the worst misery they can get away with in retaliation for any real or perceived slights. For better and worse, you always know where you stand with these folks. Three, a small minority of them are truly psychopaths and deranged individuals. I don’t think Satanism made them that way, but it is a very attractive philosophy for folks who live for nothing more than their own urges.

I’m probably wasting my breath on the prayer warrior types in here, but I will say it anyway**: Satanists are not Wiccans or pagans despite the similarity in our uniforms. Most of us who have been around a while realize that Satanists are generally just Christians in rebellion.** A dualist turned inside out is still a dualist in our eyes. We don’t follow Christian cosmology and doctrine, so why would we be interested in its shadow version? Plus these folks are generally no more tolerant of us than their Christian counterparts. Isaac Bonewits, who I consider to be one of modern paganism’s brightest authors, has a brilliant observation about Satanism. He said “most Satanists are Christian fundamentalists in drag.”

“Satanism” is a "denomination of Christianity…it uses Christian myth and imagry…one cannot be a Satanist…without first being a Christian who embraces the dark side of Christian mythology. Satanism has nothing to do with Neo-paganism…two separate and distinct mythologies employed…one Christian…one…well…pagan.

 

[Publisher]

I noticed in several interviews with the LaVey, philosophical Satanists that many of them cite Ayn Rand as an influence. It was almost an across the board type of thing, so it makes me think they take her philosophy seriously and strive to integrate it into their lifestyle and thinking. Makes me wonder if many of the Rand afficionados on here might re-consider if they know how easily her thought fits in with self-proclaimed Satanists.

I think your first point is very well taken. If you were a theological Satanist (as I’ve heard them called) why would you worship Satan in the first place**. If you acknowledge the Devil is real then by default you admit God is real and so is Christ. All we need to know comes from the Bible about the Devil and decidedly in the end things don’t turn out well for the Devil**. So if you say the Bible is wrong on that, as a Satanist, then you might be forced to concede that the existence of the Devil could be up for debate.

I love the Bonewits quote and it might be very true.

ChadS

Did any see the movie the “Devil’s Advocate”?..Al Pacio plays Satan…and Kenau Reeves says something very similar to him…Al looks at him and smiles and says something to the effect…“Well…consider the source! Of course it’s gonna say I lose!”

 

[edwest2]

Here are some words from the Catholic Answers Library:

catholic.com/thisrock/2008/0807fea4.asp

Hope this helps,
Ed

 

[Being_Brave]

Good information, thank you Ed

 

[IanCorrigan]

"Satanism" was an invention of the church in the middle ages. There was never a “black mass” until the church invented it to persecute “heretics” by then claiming they profaned the mass. The mass was all the common folks knew…so it was no great surprise that the “details” of the “dark mass” mimiced what those tortured knew.

This is pretty much right. While stories of secret sects who worshipped ‘demons’ and did ill deeds are as old as writing, other evidence of their existence is, well, non-existant. There is not a single manuscript of ‘satanic’ writing from the middle ages, no ritual book, no scrap of poetry. There is no veneration image of ‘Satan’, no chapel or ritual space, ever discovered.

Now, to be fair, the ‘black mass’ is an extension of what the medieval church called ‘low mass’ in which masses could be said (when paid for) in order to seek specific worldly goals - a mass for fertility, or for healing, or protection. From there it’s a short jump to saying the funerary mass ‘against’ a living target. The church found reason to legislate against the latter practice more than once. The original notion of the black mass is a mass turned to evil in that sort of way. No ‘Satanism’ involved - just a perverse notion that one can ask God to help you do evil…

The most famous example of that is the Star Chamber case in France, in which Louis’ mistress hired a renegade priest to do masses to keep the king’s affections, using a bunch of folk-magic add-ons like pubic-hair cocktails. These ‘amatory masses’ are not recorded as to detail, but I don’t think anyone claimed that they were ‘worshipping Satan’.

The full-scale inversion of church rites that is the current notion of the Black Mass seems to have been a French and English literary invention of the 18th and 19th centuries. (Montague Summers and Eliphas levi come to mind) However medieval witch-fantasists in the church had imagined witches treading on the cross or host, and otherwise defiling sacraments, so the idea had deep roots. Once again, there is no example of a black mass ritual extant from early modern days.

I know that in the 17th or 18th centuries the “Hell Fire Clubs” in some universities were formed. Much of the “myth” of the “witches sabbats” was also drawn from the “confessions” of the women who had undergone torture…and who would have said ANYTHING they were asked to say to stop the torture.

Yes, as the enlightenment moved along, deliberate mockery of the old traditions became fashionable. They might even have trumped up a black mass rite. The Hellfire Clubs had zero impact on occultism, though, and seem to have been little more than a fad.

Satanism is the child of the church. Anton Lavey in the '60’s used much of the myths gleaned during the middle ages to formulate his rituals and formed the Church of Satan…Michael Aquino’s group broke off from the Church of Satan and formed the Temple of Set…major difference LaVey’s group don’t believe in a “satan”…or a God for that matter…Aquino’s group really does believe in a “Prince of Darkness”.

There have been various examples of self-aware satanism in the 19th and 20th Cs, but only Lavey’s has had much impact. Now, though, we have ‘theistic satanists’ treating the spirits as the spirits… It will be interesting to see where they end up.

 

[kenofken]

The more I think about this issue, I remembered something interesting. About the only theistic worshippers of Satan that I know of are, wait for it…Catholic! Not Catholics generally of course, but I saw a PBS special a few years ago called the Devil’s miners, about child labor in silver mines in Potosi in the Andes. The work is insanely dangerous, as you might imagine, with the upper life expectancy in the 30s or early 40s. The miners are Catholic as can be, but they also pay tribute to “El Tio” as the lord of the underworld. Since they figure they’re on his turf when they’re at work, they make animal blood sacrifices and leave other offerings to a huge statue in the mines which is the classic image of Satan. A literal example of giving the devil his due…