True Ecumenism

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Augustine

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Early this year I was blessed to go to the Holy Land and to spend the night locked down inside the Church of the Holy Sepulcher. After midnight, the church is handed over to the Orthodox for their celebration of the Divine Liturgy at the Tomb of the Resurrection of Our Lord. And, since it’s their turn to offer the Eucharistic Sacrifice according to their traditions, whoever is not Orthodox moves to other spaces in the church.

For those who are not aware, there are several chapels in the church belonging exclusively to a church: the Latin Church, the Greek Orthodox Church, the Armenian Apostolic Church.

As a Latin Catholic, I went to the respective chapel for the Office of Readings by the Franciscan Friars who man the church during those hours reserved to the Catholics. The Greeks begin the liturgy right after the friars end their office, so I remained in the Latin chapel reflecting on the Passion for a few moments, until the Orthodox started chanting. About then, they started to incense the altar inside the Tomb and went on to incense all the altars in the church, be they Latin or Armenian, as well as anyone present! I felt so joyful for this moment of unity among separated Christians, based on the Mysteries of the Eucharist and of Baptism!

“May they all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us.” (Jn 17:21)
 
👍

I have to admit that, from the thread title, I wasn’t too sure what to expect in this thread. “True ecumenism” is sometimes code for “Let’s convert everyone to Catholicism [or whatever church the speaker belongs to].”
 
Peter_J said:
👍

I have to admit that, from the thread title, I wasn’t too sure what to expect in this thread. “True ecumenism” is sometimes code for “Let’s convert everyone to Catholicism [or whatever church the speaker belongs to].”
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…or let us ignore whatever is uniquely Catholic. :rolleyes:

To the OP, it is very nice that this church is shared by several of the ancient Churches. 😉
 
Augustine said:
Early this year I was blessed to go to the Holy Land and to spend the night locked down inside the Church of the Holy Sepulcher. After midnight, the church is handed over to the Orthodox for their celebration of the Divine Liturgy at the Tomb of the Resurrection of Our Lord. And, since it’s their turn to offer the Eucharistic Sacrifice according to their traditions, whoever is not Orthodox moves to other spaces in the church.

For those who are not aware, there are several chapels in the church belonging exclusively to a church: the Latin Church, the Greek Orthodox Church, the Armenian Apostolic Church.

As a Latin Catholic, I went to the respective chapel for the Office of Readings by the Franciscan Friars who man the church during those hours reserved to the Catholics. The Greeks begin the liturgy right after the friars end their office, so I remained in the Latin chapel reflecting on the Passion for a few moments, until the Orthodox started chanting. About then, they started to incense the altar inside the Tomb and went on to incense all the altars in the church, be they Latin or Armenian, as well as anyone present! I felt so joyful for this moment of unity among separated Christians, based on the Mysteries of the Eucharist and of Baptism!

“May they all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us.” (Jn 17:21)
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As nice as that is, the Church of the Holy Sepulchre is HARDLY an example of ecumenism. Those communities pretty much despise each other and the only thing keeping the peace is an old Ottoman firman establishing a status quo, still enforced today by Israeli police.

And despite that, it takes little for one group to offend another group such that fistfights break out among the communities. They could not be held up as shining examples of Christian brotherhood.
 
Peter_J said:
Oh, don’t get me started on all that “We’re really all the same” stuff.
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Of course we are not. But can we be in communion with each other?
I think that is what HH Francis and Ecumenical Orthodox Patriarch Bartholomew are doing at this very moment.

From me, an Eastern Orthodox bishop, I say: I wish we are in communion, and I make it into a prayer. Every day, without fail. In fact, I have been praying for it since I was a little boy. My heart bleeds for the disunity among the children of God who believe in the same Father and Son and the Hol Spirit.

May there be many who join me in this prayer.

May the Most Holy Lady Theotokos, the Blessed Virgin and Queen, be the one who leads us to unity. After all, she is our very real mother (John 19:26).

Amen.

+Gavrilo
 
Bishop_Gavrilo said:
Of course we are not. But can we be in communion with each other?
I think that is what HH Francis and Ecumenical Orthodox Patriarch Bartholomew are doing at this very moment.

From me, an Eastern Orthodox bishop, I say: I wish we are in communion, and I make it into a prayer. Every day, without fail. In fact, I have been praying for it since I was a little boy. My heart bleeds for the disunity among the children of God who believe in the same Father and Son and the Hol Spirit.

May there be many who join me in this prayer.

May the Most Holy Lady Theotokos, the Blessed Virgin and Queen, be the one who leads us to unity. After all, she is our very real mother (John 19:26).

Amen.

+Gavrilo
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And let us all say, ‘Amen.’
 
Amen. Incidentally, my priest told me last week he thinks the east and west will re-unite in 2025, 1,000 years after the first schism. Something to hope and pray for.
 
peter26 said:
Amen. Incidentally, my priest told me last week he thinks the east and west will re-unite in 2025, 1,000 years after the first schism. Something to hope and pray for.
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I’m guessing any moment someone’s going to chime in here that the schism was 1054, not 1025. However, I would say both of those dates are wrong.
 
Peter_J said:
I’m guessing any moment someone’s going to chime in here that the schism was 1054, not 1025. However, I would say both of those dates are wrong.
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I will not go into the date wars, but let me tell you if there are clergy on bith sides, I am hopeful and optimistic.

I would be so happy to see us be in communion again!

Blessings,
+Gavrilo
 
peter26 said:
Amen. Incidentally, my priest told me last week he thinks the east and west will re-unite in 2025, 1,000 years after the first schism. Something to hope and pray for.
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I don’t think so, save for the miracle that we should all pray for.

There just have been too much mishandling, by popes and patriarchs, that bred deep mistrust. Though in the last half century many gestures of reconciliation have come forth from all sides, I wouldn’t be surprised if it took a quarter or even a half millennium of continuous good will for union between the Catholic, Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox Churches to be de facto the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

May the Lamb of God which we partake of in the Holy Sacraments and Divine Mysteries bring us together under the same banner again: In Hoc Signo Vinces ✝️

Pax Christi
 
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