True God and true man...

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tonyrey

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“Jesus was like us in all things but sin” implies that He was subject to the same weaknesses as we are. Did He act impulsively? Did He make mistakes in non-spiritual matters? Did He regret some of the things He said?

These are not idle questions but important ones because our answers help us to come closer to Him if we don’t have an idealised image which makes Him seem more remote from us than He really is…
 
tonyrey said:
“Jesus was like us in all things but sin” implies that He was subject to the same weaknesses as we are. Did He act impulsively? Did He make mistakes in non-spiritual matters? Did He regret some of the things He said?

These are not idle questions but important ones because our answers help us to come closer to Him if we don’t have an idealised image which makes Him seem more remote from us than He really is…
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We have no way of knowing, so we have to speculate.

And as a Padre whom I trust wholeheadedly has said: “We need to be careful to not make Christ over in our own image.”

Having a divine mind to back up His human mind, ISTM that HE was free from most, if not all, of the nonsinful blunders that litter the trail of human life.

GOD Bless and ICXC NIKA.
 
He stayed behind in the Temple without telling His mother and foster-father, which seems to me not out of character for an adolescent - even the One divine adolescent. 'Didn’t you know where I’d be?"
Driving the money changers from the Temple seems like what would be, in us, an impulsive act; He was angered at the spectacle. Unlike us He wouldn’t be overwhelmed by the impulse which was prompted by seeing the profanities of His Father’s house.
 
tonyrey said:
“Jesus was like us in all things but sin” implies that He was subject to the same weaknesses as we are. Did He act impulsively? Did He make mistakes in non-spiritual matters? Did He regret some of the things He said?

These are not idle questions but important ones because our answers help us to come closer to Him if we don’t have an idealised image which makes Him seem more remote from us than He really is…
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I would suppose he acted impulsively, but his impulses were entirely from God.

Mistakes in non-spiritual matters? Well, the Cross is a mistake from a non-spiritual perspective.

If his humanity was fully united with God, why would he regret what he did?
 
I’d venture to say not only was Jesus sinless, but also free from any inclination towards sin so rash judgments, and crabbiness and acting like a dork weren’t His tendencies. He was a perfect gentleman in every way, a lovely man and handsome too. But I’m partial.

Glenda
 
grannymh said:
Jesus assumed human nature. Jesus did not absorb human nature. Therefore, He did not absorb our weaknesses.

For good, yes. For bad, no.

No

No
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Do you mean Jesus was infallible in everything He said and did? He never made any mistakes even when He was a child?
 
CarmelJerome said:
He stayed behind in the Temple without telling His mother and foster-father, which seems to me not out of character for an adolescent - even the One divine adolescent. 'Didn’t you know where I’d be?"
Driving the money changers from the Temple seems like what would be, in us, an impulsive act; He was angered at the spectacle. Unlike us He wouldn’t be overwhelmed by the impulse which was prompted by seeing the profanities of His Father’s house.
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👍 Excellent examples of His humanity. Jesus grew up in a Jewish village and worked as an ordinary, humble carpenter who experienced the problems and hardships of everyday life from the moment He was born in a manger.
 
CrossofChrist said:
I would suppose he acted impulsively, but his impulses were entirely from God.

Mistakes in non-spiritual matters? Well, the Cross is a mistake from a non-spiritual perspective.c
If his humanity was fully united with God, why would he regret what he did?
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Jesus didn’t regret what He did but He would have been inhuman if He hadn’t been tempted on the Cross:

“My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?”

He was quoting Psalm 22 but the words must have reflected His thoughts and feelings - as they did more explicitly when He sweated blood in Gethsemane:

“Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”
 
tonyrey said:
“Jesus was like us in all things but sin” implies that He was subject to the same weaknesses as we are. Did He act impulsively? Did He make mistakes in non-spiritual matters? Did He regret some of the things He said?
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Imho it depends whether we think he is superman or a man. Standard Baptist theology is there would be no point in him taking human form except to experience our joys and sorrows, and without this his sacrifice and intercession would lose their meaning. Isaiah also sees him as a frail human, bearing our infirmities, carrying our diseases, suffering, wounded, crushed.

Although whether he ever contracted cooties and had ice cream headaches is an ongoing theological debate. 😃
 
tonyrey said:
Do you mean Jesus was infallible in everything He said and did? He never made any mistakes even when He was a child?
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The Person of Jesus included two natures. Because Jesus had the nature of True God, the answer is yes to your question.
 
glendab said:
I’d venture to say not only was Jesus sinless, but also free from any inclination towards sin so rash judgments, and crabbiness and acting like a dork weren’t His tendencies. He was a perfect gentleman in every way, a lovely man and handsome too. But I’m partial.

Glenda
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I’d agree with you.

A human soma free from the collective genetic entropy since Adam would be a beauty to behold. And based on the shroud of Turin, He looked better dead than most of us do alive!

ICXC NIKA.
 
inocente said:
Imho it depends whether we think he is superman or a man. Standard Baptist theology is there would be no point in him taking human form except to experience our joys and sorrows, and without this his sacrifice and intercession would lose their meaning. Isaiah also sees him as a frail human, bearing our infirmities, carrying our diseases, suffering, wounded, crushed.

Although whether he ever contracted cooties and had ice cream headaches is an ongoing theological debate. 😃
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I doubt the ice-cream headaches, as only Pontius Pilate (if he) would have had access to ice-cream in Roman Judaea :)🙂

ICXC NIKA.
 
grannymh said:
Jesus assumed human nature. Jesus did not absorb human nature. Therefore, He did not absorb our weaknesses.
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You are making a distinction that probably doesn’t exist.

Our LORD was a human being, having a human mind and body. Human being implies all of our limitations/weaknesses.

To be sure, free from the physical entropy of genes due to corruption, or the moral flaws passed on by generations, He was a wondrous example of male human life. But the operative word is “human.”

ICXC NIKA.
 
Originally Posted by grannymh forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
Jesus assumed human nature. Jesus did not absorb human nature. Therefore, He did not absorb our weaknesses.
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GEddie said:
You are making a distinction that probably doesn’t exist.
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Please refer to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, paragraphs 464-483.

Please note the opening sentence of CCC 470.
Because “human nature was assumed, not absorbed,” …
 
inocente said:
Imho it depends whether we think he is superman or a man. Standard Baptist theology is there would be no point in him taking human form except to experience our joys and sorrows, and without this his sacrifice and intercession would lose their meaning. Isaiah also sees him as a frail human, bearing our infirmities, carrying our diseases, suffering, wounded, crushed.
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Which suggests that Jesus Himself was not immune to “the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune”. He must have had minor accidents and mishaps during His journeys through the deserts and mountains of Galilee and Judea. His trials on earth began when He was put in the manger rather than a comfortable cot…
 
Maybe “mistakes” happened (e.g he tripped or something), he let natural things take their course, but not in a way where Christ didn’t know the truth or make it seem to others he didn’t. He didn’t lie.
 
CrossofChrist said:
Maybe “mistakes” happened (e.g he tripped or something), he let natural things take their course, but not in a way where Christ didn’t know the truth or make it seem to others he didn’t. He didn’t lie.
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I agree. I specified mistakes in non-spiritual matters. 🙂

The fact that Jesus was so down to earth makes His teaching about heaven all the more impressive. Even Richard Dawkins admits His moral insight was way ahead of the time in which He lived. Sceptics need to explain how a Jewish carpenter in an obscure province of the Roman empire could have such an immense impact on the subsequent history of mankind.
 
tonyrey said:
I agree. I specified mistakes in non-spiritual matters. 🙂
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Well, there could be some non-spiritual matters where Jesus wouldn’t make a mistake. Would Jesus not know the answers about the physical reality he created?

So, if we would apply our modern schooling to Jesus, maybe he made a “mistake” on a science test or something by answering in too vague of a way, because he knows that if he answered in a less mysterious way it would be beyond that point of time in history. So he takes the point off on the test. To others that might seem a mistake, to him clearly not.
 
Hello Tonyrey.
tonyrey said:
Do you mean Jesus was infallible in everything He said and did? He never made any mistakes even when He was a child?
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Correct me if I’m off here, but I sense a twinge of judgment upon the actions of Jesus, who is God. I mean if you are only evaluating His divine actions in the Gospel accounts to learn and grow from them or to feel closer to Him in His humanity by looking at His actions in a certain way, but please remember these are all divine actions recorded for us to teach and exhort and give examples of how we should follow Him. We aren’t supposed to judge His actions or words to see if there might be mistakes or if they are infallible or somehow not up to the standards of our societal norms for behavior. If you don’t understand what He did or said in light of your own experience and knowledge, the shortfall isn’t with Jesus. Simply think “I don’t understand,” a particular passage or saying or whatever rather than risk falling into a certain sinful attitude that gives you the ability to judge God’s words and actions. I mean think about it - looking for mistakes in Jesus’ words and actions is judging God and that is not so good for your poor soul.

Oh well. Just my opinion and I’m no expert on anything but chicken enchiladas with black beans and salad for dinner soon, so yummy! I’m hungry.

Glenda
 
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