"Trying to cure crime by hiring more police officers is like trying to cure cancer by hiring more ambulance drivers"

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I cannot claim credit for writing the statement. I transcribed words that somebody uttered, somebody else recorded, somebody else uploaded, etc.
 
Agree? Disagree? Comments?

I cannot claim credit for writing the statement. I transcribed words that somebody uttered, somebody else recorded, somebody else uploaded, etc.
Police officers patrol and help and prevent. Ambulance drivers are after a catastrophe has happened. The statement has no similarities at all.
 
Police officers patrol and help and prevent. Ambulance drivers are after a catastrophe has happened. The statement has no similarities at all.
Engaging in crime is a conscious choice, that can be deterred by visible law enforcement. Cancer is a natural failure process in a body, that cannot be directly prevented. There is no connection.

ICXC NIKA
 
Like most analogies, this one is pretty unhelpful. I think I get what the author was trying for, i.e. neither gets at the root cause to prevent it.

They’d have been better off going for something like “Trying to prevent crime by hiring more police officers is like trying to prevent cancer by hiring more doctors” with the idea being that neither can truly prevent it (that would take addressing the underlying causes of crime and cancer), but both can sometimes cure it once it has been set in motion.
 
There is no way to “cure crime” as long as human life remains human.

Wherever there is a law, some human beings will strive to break it.

But some crimes can be deterred.

ICXC NIKA
 
Engaging in crime is a conscious choice, that can be deterred by visible law enforcement.
Did you know that Michael Milken and Bernard Madoff were about to receive parking tickets, and when they saw the police officers approaching, each of them made an immediate and full confession? It makes sense. Interrogation can be unpleasant. There are things like waterboarding.

Actually, it is unlikely that you know it to be true, because I just created that imaginary scenario and used it to construct my question.

The SEC ignored information that Harry Markopolos had compiled from various publicly available sources, and Markpolos’ analysis of that information that suggested a very limited number of possible explanations, all of those explanations involving lawbreaking by Madoff. The SEC also claimed to have investigated Madoff when they had not conducted an investigation. That false claim of the SEC reassured some investors, if victims of a Ponzi scheme can be called “investors.”

Perhaps Markopolos should have contacted the police and asked them to get a court order to bug Madoff’s telephones to gather evidence. In that case, the gathering of evidence would have been invisible to Madoff. No good? Does law enforcement need to be visible in order to deter crime?

I can imagine that it is possible – but very unlikely – that the SEC used my trick of asking questions rather than making statements … “Did you know that we have investigated Madoff? Did you know that we discovered nothing that warrants further investigation? Did you know that we explained the strange combinations of circumstances that Markopolos thought were suspicious?” Should I do a fact check on that?
 
There is no way to “cure crime” as long as human life remains human.
That is a good point. The analogy does not refer to all illnesses, but only to cancer. However, it does refer to crime without limitation. Thus, we could revise the analogy by selecting some specific kind of crime.

It is possible to treat and cure a particular case of the bends (decompression sickness), but it seems impossible – regardless of our state of knowledge today – to today treat and cure a particular person who is not yet a patient and who has never suffered from the bends but who will suffer from the bends in the future.

Doctors diagnose and treat patients who have been injured in traffic accidents, but we do not on that basis say that a successfully implemented plan to improve traffic safety has been a practice of medicine.
Wherever there is a law, some human beings will strive to break it.
That sounds like a reason to enact a new law: a criminal is forbidden from turning himself in to the authorities until at least 48 hours after his most recent crime was committed. Naturally, then some human beings will strive to turn themselves in before the 48 hours have elapsed. Many will fail. However, some will succeed, and they will suffer the penalty of paying a $4.80 penalty for confessing too soon, in addition to the penalties for the crime being confessed to.
But some crimes can be deterred.
Deterred or delayed? If criminals had reason to believe that there are more plainclothes police officers than uniformed police officers, then criminals would be deterred. If the vast majority of police officers are wearing uniforms, then criminals simply need to have good eyesight and the ability to recognize what uniforms are police uniforms. Also, it seems odd that criminals would be able to obtain guns and ammunition, but not police uniforms.

Thank you for participating in this thread. Your answers look simple, but when they are examined carefully, it seems that a variety of interesting complications arise. So it is rewarding to examine your answers carefully. That is good for the forum. What fails to reward careful attention can have the effect of something like the asleep-at-the-keyboard condition that leads to message board accidents.
 
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I cannot claim credit for writing the statement. I transcribed words that somebody uttered, somebody else recorded, somebody else uploaded, etc.
Oh yes, I agree 100%.

Unfortunately we humans are not that smart, for the most part our law enforcement community is still sort of ‘medieval’, in that they think arrest and punishment is the solution to crime, and that will lead to a safe and healthy community, some are starting to come around, like helping drug addicts get into treatment rather than prison, but the general mindset is still old fashioned, you cannot ‘arrest your way out of a problem’

I just saw an article in our paper, despite years of tough new opiate and heroin laws, creation of heroin task forces, etc. overdose and arrest figures are increasing…yet LE suggests the same old approach, more laws, more arrests…??? LOL its almost comical if it was not so sad.

I imagine in the future, they will find a different way to resolve these problems, to address a problem, you have to attack its origin/ source, go after ‘why’ these people are doing these things.

I think once we understand the brain and how it functions in different people, we can begin to solve this problem, there is some mental reason why some people are criminally inclined and others are not.

You also have to factor in job security too, if we suddenly know how to eliminate criminal inclinations, there will not be as big a need for LE, thats whats keeping the drug war going, even though abuse and OD rates climb, Law enforcement continues to suggest the same approach (more, tougher laws), when the numbers show this has never worked…GEE, I wonder why they would keep suggesting this? LOL
 
This is false because ambulance drivers rarely respond to cancer cases. Ambulances are for immediate medical emergencies.
 
Having more police officers on the streets is a deterrent to crime. I saw it in Detroit some years back. A certain part of town was redeveloped and as I walked around, there was a police officer on the sidewalk every time I turned onto a new street. And I thought: “They are here because those in charge know a more visible police presence deters crime.”

Ed
 
It’s a pointless argument! Nobody wants the job now, and those few that do,won’t last long.
 
Actually, former NYC police commissioner William Bratton demonstrated that police can prevent crime instead of just responding to it. He did this by concentrating police presence in crime prone areas, using a stop, question, and frisk policy, maintaining good community relations, and a no tolerance policy for anti-social behavior and police corruption. He was also tough on gangs. But when he was forced to relax the stop and frisk policy, crime increased.
 
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I cannot claim credit for writing the statement. I transcribed words that somebody uttered, somebody else recorded, somebody else uploaded, etc.
Effective policing has consistently been shown to contain and reduce criminal activity.
Additional police may or may not be required to do it.

More ambulance drivers may be very useful in saving lives if accident victims are waiting hours to catch a lift to emergency care. Isolating cancer is a red herring.
 
Effective policing has consistently been shown to contain and reduce criminal activity.
Additional police may or may not be required to do it.

More ambulance drivers may be very useful in saving lives if accident victims are waiting hours to catch a lift to emergency care. Isolating cancer is a red herring.
Community centered policing has been shown to reduce criminal activity and to increase community cooperation with police. Additional police ARE needed to have an effective community police program since departments who are stretching resources have less available for community outreach.
 
Effective policing has consistently been shown to contain and reduce criminal activity.
Additional police may or may not be required to do it.

More ambulance drivers may be very useful in saving lives if accident victims are waiting hours to catch a lift to emergency care. Isolating cancer is a red herring.
Not for everything, look at the drug problem, heroin especially in my area is a HUGE problem, despite the past 4 years of police cracking down, hiring more cops to deal with this problem specifically, even though arrests and convictions go up, overdose and general use rates keep going up.

Strong police presence deters SOME crime, but not all types of crime, usually the criminals just find better ways to avoid police detection.
 
Not for everything, look at the drug problem, heroin especially in my area is a HUGE problem, despite the past 4 years of police cracking down, hiring more cops to deal with this problem specifically, even though arrests and convictions go up, overdose and general use rates keep going up.

Strong police presence deters SOME crime, but not all types of crime, usually the criminals just find better ways to avoid police detection.
Even if the rate of illegal drug use isn’t changed, if the increased police presence leads to less ancillary crime such as drug related domestic violence or drug related robberies, it’s still a good thing.
 
Actually, former NYC police commissioner William Bratton demonstrated that police can prevent crime instead of just responding to it. He did this by concentrating police presence in crime prone areas, using a stop, question, and frisk policy, maintaining good community relations, and a no tolerance policy for anti-social behavior and police corruption. He was also tough on gangs. But when he was forced to relax the stop and frisk policy, crime increased.
huffingtonpost.com/entry/nypd-low-crime-first-quarter-2016_us_5702b0dae4b0a06d580653e3
Crime has actually been dropping.
Even if the rate of illegal drug use isn’t changed, if the increased police presence leads to less ancillary crime such as drug related domestic violence or drug related robberies, it’s still a good thing.
Why not work on prevention?
 
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I cannot claim credit for writing the statement. I transcribed words that somebody uttered, somebody else recorded, somebody else uploaded, etc.
I think the point of the statement is that investing in programs to prevent people from turning to crime in the first place (such as after school programs for low income neighborhoods) is ultimately more successful than merely throwing money at things which punish crime after it already happens.
 
I think the point of the statement is that investing in programs to prevent people from turning to crime in the first place (such as after school programs for low income neighborhoods) is ultimately more successful than merely throwing money at things which punish crime after it already happens.
Do you have evidence on these programs reducing crime and drug usage?
BTW, I’m all for access to rec centers etc.
 
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