Tu Mass readings (when priests/bishops once could be married / Jesus gives us Mary for our mother)

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September 15, 2009

Memorial of Our Lady of Sorrows

**Reading 1
1 Tm 3:1-13 **

Beloved, this saying is trustworthy:
whoever aspires to the office of bishop desires a noble task.
Therefore, a bishop must be irreproachable,
married only once, temperate, self-controlled,
decent, hospitable, able to teach,
not a drunkard, not aggressive, but gentle,
not contentious, not a lover of money.
He must manage his own household well,
keeping his children under control with perfect dignity;
for if a man does not know how to manage his own household,
how can he take care of the Church of God?

He should not be a recent convert,
so that he may not become conceited
and thus incur the devil’s punishment
.
He must also have a good reputation among outsiders,
so that he may not fall into disgrace, the Devil’s trap.

Similarly, deacons must be dignified, not deceitful,
not addicted to drink, not greedy for sordid gain,
holding fast to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.
Moreover, they should be tested first;
then, if there is nothing against them,
let them serve as deacons.
Women, similarly, should be dignified, not slanderers,
but temperate and faithful in everything.
Deacons may be married only once
and must manage their children and their households well.
Thus those who serve well as deacons gain good standing
and much confidence in their faith in Christ Jesus.

Responsorial Psalm
Ps 101:1b-2ab, 2cd-3ab, 5, 6


R. (2) I will walk with blameless heart.
Of mercy and judgment I will sing;
to you, O LORD, I will sing praise.
I will persevere in the way of integrity;
when will you come to me?
R. I will walk with blameless heart.
I will walk with blameless heart,
within my house;
I will not set before my eyes
any base thing.
R. I will walk with blameless heart.
Whoever slanders his neighbor in secret,
him will I destroy.

The man of haughty eyes and puffed up heart
I will not endure.
R. I will walk with blameless heart.
My eyes are upon the faithful of the land,
that they may dwell with me.
He who walks in the way of integrity
shall be in my service.
R. I will walk with blameless heart.

Gospel
Jn 19:25-27 or Lk 2:33-35

Jn 19:25-27


Standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother
and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas,
and Mary Magdalene.
When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple there whom he loved
he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son
.”
Then he said to the disciple,
“Behold, your mother.”
And from that hour the disciple took her into his home.

or
**
Lk 2:33-35**

Jesus’ father and mother were amazed at what was said about him;
and Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother,
Behold, this child is destined
for the fall and rise of many in Israel,

and to be a sign that will be contradicted
and you yourself a sword will pierce
so that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.”

1st:

*it used to be that bishops and priests could marry. Now they can’t, esp bishops. I think the Church changed that due to the wisdom in this passage:

for if a man does not know how to manage his own household,
how can he take care of the Church of God?


It is extremely difficult to have a family and also be a man of God… There is another psg that speaks of how the unmarried man is concerned w/ the things of God while the married one is concerned w/ pleasing his wife (family).

Nowadays people act like you are going to die if you have to live without sex more than a month… Gee, in that case, i shoulda been dead a thousand times over by now… :rolleyes:

2nd:

Jesus makes Mary John’s mother and in so doiing, makes her mother to all of us… :)*
 
what year did they decide that priests shouldn’t be married?

I agree that it would be nearly impossible to manage both a family and a church.
He would constantly have to disregard one or the other. Also, one person actually
can’t control another, so that his family may become a scandal to him, depending
on their actions.

I wonder if back then a bishop or priest had another job, to support his family, or
was the congregation expected to support them all, no matter how many there
were?

Just want to add here that Jesus is the way the truth and the life, the Catholic
church is His church, and “obey God and leave all the consequences to Him”. 🙂
 
I think you are understanding it in reverse. These are things a man should live up to in order to be a bishop. They set the bar for what type of man would make a good bishop. It’s almost like requirements for a job description in the newspaper:
Wanted: Bishop to care for the souls of the church. Men only please. You must have never married more than once and posses the following traits: temperate and self-controlled. decent, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not aggressive, but gentle, not contentious, not a lover of money and you must manage your own household well, keeping your children under control with perfect dignity. If you do not meet any of these qualifications, please do not apply for the position. Please send prayer to God for more information.
Keep in mind that it’s only the western rite that maintains the rule of a celibate priesthood, and only a handful of other rites do not allow married priests to become bishops.

There are several valid reasons the west maintains the discipline of the celibate priesthood. Some of it stems from scripture, some of it stems from other things that happened when the celibate priesthood wasn’t the rule.
 
When the Church was founded most adult men were married. If one wanted mature leaders it was necessary to use married men.
 
There are so many holy days to celebrate Mary. I wonder how many there are?
It seems so strange to celebrate her sorrow. This is a sorrow so great that Jesus
Himself was spared from it. He did not have to stand by as His loved one was killed.

There are no strange stories of Mary, like wearing scratchy hair, or boldly speaking
out, or a stigmata. She’s a mom, and after the angel Gabriel made his announcement, he moved on to Joseph, the head of the family, and spoke to him
instead. She must have had a happy life, living in humble peace all her days. Our
priest says Mary didn’t “whine”(yes, he said whine) when Jesus was killed, or rush to
Pilate to beg for His life. I didn’t think of that Idea, why didn’t she?

Anyway, I just wanted to say some things about her on her day. I wonder what it was
like for her to live with the aposlte John? Was she really able to love him as her own
son? I am sure she was, and that she was a great comfort to John…
You know, I think God does this for everyone when someone dies. Maybe not right
away, but He puts others into our life, if we are obedient to accept them…
 
what year did they decide that priests shouldn’t be married?

I agree that it would be nearly impossible to manage both a family and a church.
He would constantly have to disregard one or the other. Also, one person actually
can’t control another, so that his family may become a scandal to him, depending
on their actions.

I wonder if back then a bishop or priest had another job, to support his family, or
was the congregation expected to support them all, no matter how many there
were?

Just want to add here that Jesus is the way the truth and the life, the Catholic
church is His church, and “obey God and leave all the consequences to Him”. 🙂
when there was no birth control (as we know it) … i don’t see how he could have held down a job… while at the same time being bishop over several churches… :confused:

of course there probably weren’t as many erring priests back in those days… as there are now… but God knows…

i wonder if bishops are really all that into disciplining errant priests anyhow…

topic for another thread i guess…
 
I think you are understanding it in reverse. These are things a man should live up to in order to be a bishop. They set the bar for what type of man would make a good bishop. It’s almost like requirements for a job description in the newspaper:

Keep in mind that it’s only the western rite that maintains the rule of a celibate priesthood, and only a handful of other rites do not allow married priests to become bishops.

There are several valid reasons the west maintains the discipline of the celibate priesthood. Some of it stems from scripture, some of it stems from other things that happened when the celibate priesthood wasn’t the rule.
why do posters say such things (that last thing) without explainign? annoying…

i believe it is only based on scirpture… The Roman Catholic Church is the one established by Christ… All those that do things differently are… that much less Catholic etc…

i believe in a celibate priesthood. I think it is one of the most beautiful concepts… ways of life … in the world…

esp in a world that thinks sex is God… thinks that if you live without it, its going to kill you…

well, again, in that case, i should have been dead 1000 times over by now…

some people can’t believe i have “done without” that long… but for one hting, it gets easier the longer you go without… and the more you see of … uh… what kind of men are out there…

Sorry, just being honest… i know they’re not all bad… but all the good ones aseem to be taken…

by marriage or the priesthood or something… IT’s always something…

but i am not complaining. i’m not ready for marriage anyhow and probably never will be…

i like being married to Jesus… He loves at all time, understands at all times, never rejects… never divorces… never hates, never threatens…

and is always there… That’s the best thing… 🙂
 
There are so many holy days to celebrate Mary. I wonder how many there are?
It seems so strange to celebrate her sorrow. This is a sorrow so great that Jesus
Himself was spared from it. He did not have to stand by as His loved one was killed.

There are no strange stories of Mary, like wearing scratchy hair, or boldly speaking
out, or a stigmata. She’s a mom, and after the angel Gabriel made his announcement, he moved on to Joseph, the head of the family, and spoke to him
instead. She must have had a happy life, living in humble peace all her days. Our
priest says Mary didn’t “whine”(yes, he said whine) when Jesus was killed, or rush to
Pilate to beg for His life. I didn’t think of that Idea, why didn’t she?

Anyway, I just wanted to say some things about her on her day. I wonder what it was
like for her to live with the aposlte John? Was she really able to love him as her own
son? I am sure she was, and that she was a great comfort to John…
You know, I think God does this for everyone when someone dies. Maybe not right
away, but He puts others into our life, if we are obedient to accept them…
I’ve often thought about Mary’s life after Pentecost. Two women under the same roof, and all that - and John’s mother was not exactly shy-and-retiring (remember she’s the one who tried to get Jesus to promise that her sons would sit at His right and left hand in the kingdom . . .) And then James was killed, and Mary and Salome would have had that sorrow in common.
 
I’ve often thought about Mary’s life after Pentecost. Two women under the same roof, and all that - and John’s mother was not exactly shy-and-retiring (remember she’s the one who tried to get Jesus to promise that her sons would sit at His right and left hand in the kingdom . . .) And then James was killed, and Mary and Salome would have had that sorrow in common.
:eek: o.k. now wait a minute. I just read Salome’s name for myself in Mark.
How can Jesus say “there is your mother”, while John’s mother is standing
right there? No wonder the church decided that Jesus was giving Mary as
mother to us all. That must have been clear from the beginning…
Code:
  As for them living under the same roof, wow.  A son with 2 mothers?  Which
  one to listen to....:hypno:  But then again, there might have been a lot of people
  living there...
 
:eek: o.k. now wait a minute. I just read Salome’s name for myself in Mark.
How can Jesus say “there is your mother”, while John’s mother is standing
right there? No wonder the church decided that Jesus was giving Mary as
mother to us all. That must have been clear from the beginning…
Code:
  As for them living under the same roof, wow.  A son with 2 mothers?  Which
  one to listen to....:hypno:  But then again, there might have been a lot of people
  living there...
And Jewish Mothers yet - Oi Vey!!
 
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