Two of the greatest Englishmen who ever lived

[Rob2]

St Thomas More and St John Fisher
Celebrated on June 22nd

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Both saints held high office in England but submitted to martyrdom rather than accept Henry VIII’s claim to be head of the Church.

St John Fisher was a learned teacher and chancellor at Cambridge university and a friend of the humanist Erasmus. He became Bishop of Rochester in 1504 at the age of 35. When asked to accept the King as head of the Church he said he could not.

“I do not condemn any other men’s consciences,” he said. “Their consciences must save them and mine must save me.”

He was tried and executed for treason on June 17 1535. He was 66.

St Thomas More was the Lord Chancellor. A younger man than St John Fisher, he had a large family and household to support and said he did not wish to die.

“I am not so holy that I dare rush upon death,” he said.

But he could not accept the King as supreme head of the Church or condone his divorce. Rather than make a public pronouncement he resigned from his post and hoped to retire quietly. But the King would not accept his silence. St Thomas was arrested, imprisoned at the Tower of London for 15 months and then declared guilty of treason and condemned to death.

He was executed nine days after St John Fisher. He was 57. From the scaffold he said: “I die the King’s good servant, but God’s first.”

 

[Greenfields]

Thank you Rob.We watched a movie of St Thomas Moore not too long ago,it was very well made and very moving.

 

[Genesis315]

My favorite thing about St. Thomas More was what he said to those who condemned him to death. I think it is a quintessential example of what Jesus said in Luke 12:

11 And when they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not be anxious how or what you are to answer or what you are to say; 12 for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.”

St. Thomas More

More have I not to say but like as the Blessed Apostle St. Paul, as we read in the Acts of the Apostles, was present, and consented to the death of St. Stephen, and kept their clothes that stoned him to death, and yet be they now both twain holy saints in Heaven, and shall continue there friends for ever, so I verily trust, and shall therefore right heartily pray, that though your lordships have now here in earth been judges of my condemnation, we may yet hereafter in Heaven merrily all meet together to everlasting salvation.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Thanks for the reminder about today. Going to Mass at a church named after St. Thomas More in a few minutes, to hopefully get the plenary indulgence for the patronal feast.

It’s also interesting because the particular church is on a college campus that became a big battleground a few decades ago when people sued to remove all Catholic worship services from the university property on grounds of separation of church and state. The Church won the case and continued to worship there. I think this church was built a little later as when I went back and read, the original worship services were held in some dorm. I can see why they named the church after St. Thomas More, the most famous lawyer saint.

 

[Nelka]

Does that work with every Saint on their feastday?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Yes. You need to visit the church named after the saint on the saint’s feast day, and while you are there, recite one Our Father and the Creed, and also fulfill the other conditions for plenary indulgence (be in a state of grace, confession within 20 days, Holy Communion on the day or within a few days, pray for the Holy Father’s intentions, and have no attachment to sin).

 

[Nelka]

Thanks.

What if the saint has more than one feast day like St. Joseph?

Does it also work for Mary?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I see no reason why it would not work for Mary.

With respect to St. Joseph and Mary, I may be a little scrupulous myself in trying to do the indulgences “right”, but I believe the church has to be named after the particular feast day. In other words, on St. Joseph’s main feast day I would go to a church called “St. Joseph”. On the feast day of St. Joseph the Worker, I would go to a church called “St. Joseph the Worker”. On a Mary feast day, I would go to the church named after the particular feast; for example, on the Feast of the Assumption, I would go to “Assumption BVM” church, on Immaculate Conception day I would go to “Immaculate Conception” church etc. The idea is that each church can give the indulgence on the 1 day a year that its saint has a feast. It would be a bit unfair to have a church named for Mary giving out an indulgence on many days per year just because Mary has a lot of feasts and holy days in her honor.

 

[Nelka]

Wow that’s great thanks.

So Sacred Heart church on feastday of Sacred Heart?

 

[fredystairs]

The story I heard about Bishop Fisher was that on the morning he was going to be executed the jailer woke him up early. Fisher had a cold and was still tired, so he asked the jailer to allow him to sleep a few more hours and he went back to sleep.

That’s a man with a clear conscience.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

That should work also.

 

[His_helpmeet]

St. Thomas More is particularly special to us because Hubby is a British ex-pat and avid monarchist, and I was baptized in St. Thomas More College chapel.