Two questions about things heard in homilies

[Cari]

Hey everyone,

Two questions that have been bothering me.
The past two Sundays’ homilies (one delivered by the deacon, so I guess it’s not technically a homily anyway, is it?) contained messages I found…troubling. Please comment:

The first, which was delivered as part of the deacon’s commentary, was the old one about the multiplication of the loaves and fishes being, perhaps, a miracle of humanity inspired by Christ to share, and not a miracle of Christ’s divinity. Now I know this one is counter to Church teachings, which is why I found it odd that it showed up at our parish.

The next one, which was part of Father’s homily last week, really has me confused. During it, Father said that we didn’t have to go to Confession to be forgiven. That the very moment we were sorry about our sin, God forgave us, and we really “only” needed Confession to return to the Sacraments. First off, how theologically sound is this? Second off, how prudent is it to tell people they don’t “need” Confession, particularly in a parish with a dismal turnout for the Sacrament?

Without going into details (and certainly avoiding speaking anything ill of our priest), these aren’t the first strange things I’ve been seeing here, but they are the most recent.

Could anyone comment on these homilies?
Thanks,
Cari

 

[Brain]

If they have been given faculties to by the bishop, deacons indeed do preach homilies.

the “miracle of sharing” things is trite and stupid. It was a miracle. I dont understand why people keep trying to make our blessed and divine Lord into just “a nice guy” or “a wise teacher.”

Second, while God can do whatever he wants and can forgive sins at any time, He gave us the sacraments as the ordinary vehicle of grace and forgiveness. while we do teach that if you are sorry for your sins in a pure and perfect way (not for fear of punishment or another selfish reason, but out of love for God) your sins are forgiven, that is so rare that everyone better just go to confession anyway. So I do not think it wise to tell people they dont need to go to confession.

 

[1ke]

The past two Sundays’ homilies (one delivered by the deacon, so I guess it’s not technically a homily anyway, is it?)

Yes, a Deacon gives a homily as he is also ordained.

The first, which was delivered as part of the deacon’s commentary, was the old one about the multiplication of the loaves and fishes being, perhaps, a miracle of humanity inspired by Christ to share, and not a miracle of Christ’s divinity. Now I know this one is counter to Church teachings, which is why I found it odd that it showed up at our parish.

Correct. Although this passage hasn’t been definitively defined, which give the leeway for goofy stuff like you mention above, it is historically understood to be a true miracle and precursor to the Eucharist.

During it, Father said that we didn’t have to go to Confession to be forgiven. That the very moment we were sorry about our sin, God forgave us, and we really “only” needed Confession to return to the Sacraments. First off, how theologically sound is this?

It’s not true and it’s not untrue-- it’s “sorta” true… I can see what he was driving at. He really did a poor job explaining contrition, which precedes Confession.

And, only *perfect *contrition has the effect of forgiving the sin, but it is still *contingent *upon going to Confession at the earliest opportunity.

I suggest this entire section of the Catechism especially starting at paragraph 1451.

Second off, how prudent is it to tell people they don’t “need” Confession, particularly in a parish with a dismal turnout for the Sacrament?

It’s quite imprudent, especially in a short format such as a homily and one in which people have no opportunity to ask questions. It would be better suited to a lengthy talk on the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

 

[Pani_Rose]

The sharing of the five loaves and fishes was definately a miracle of Christ’s Divinity and you might approach him about it. So he can clear up the misunderstanding which he may not realize he has done. Also, I guess in a way, it was a miracle that in man’s humanity there were the five loaves and five fishes there. I guess if you think about, people really didn’t come prepared for ‘happenings’ the way we do today, so maybe that is what he meant. Giving a benefit to a doubt here, but too, he needs to be very careful of his word choices.

In one of his homilies on Confession, St. John Chrysotom wrote that in the moments before we ask God’s forgiveness, God has already forgiven us, simply because he knows the desires of our hearts and loves us that much.

Now saying that, a preist once told some young people that you can choose to get to heaven in a chevy or a cadillac. God will forgive us, the getting there is so much harder when you don’t have the Sacramental Grace of Confesson/Reconciliation. That is the huge difference.

******And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for
My strength is made perfect in weakness…” 2 Corinthians 12:9

******“But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace towards me was not for nothing . In fact, I worked harder than all of them [the apostle], though it was not really I, but the grace of God which was with me” 1 Cor. 15:10 .

“My grace is enough for you, for power is moment by moment coming to its full energy and complete operation in the sphere of weakness. Therefore, most gladly will I rather boast in my weakness in order that the power of the Christ may take up its residence in me ” **2 Cor. 12:9.

****The Lord God is a Sun and Shield, He gives grace and glory. God gives light, illumination, revelation and protection; He gives favor and His presence. *****Ps 84:11

***The above is all missed to a great extent, by someone who by their own free volition, chooses to ask forgiveness by themselves instead of receiving the ‘GRACE’ of confession.

The previous post is better at explaining than mine

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Yes, a Deacon gives a homily as he is also ordained.

Correct. Although this passage hasn’t been definitively defined, which give the leeway for goofy stuff like you mention above, it is historically understood to be a true miracle and precursor to the Eucharist.

It’s not true and it’s not untrue-- it’s “sorta” true… I can see what he was driving at. He really did a poor job explaining contrition, which precedes Confession.

And, only *perfect *contrition has the effect of forgiving the sin, but it is still *contingent *upon going to Confession at the earliest opportunity.

I suggest this entire section of the Catechism especially starting at paragraph 1451.

It’s quite imprudent, especially in a short format such as a homily and one in which people have no opportunity to ask questions. It would be better suited to a lengthy talk on the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

It is correct to say that the Church has not definitively defined this passage of Scripture. However the Church has taught that we must always interpret Scripture “according to the Church”. In other words how the church has always interpreted this passage. Ask how the Fathers interpreted this passage? Ask which Early Church Father held this "sharing"view?

 

[catherine_m]

“The first, which was delivered as part of the deacon’s commentary, was the old one about the multiplication of the loaves and fishes being, perhaps, a miracle of humanity inspired by Christ to share, and not a miracle of Christ’s divinity. Now I know this one is counter to Church teachings, which is why I found it odd that it showed up at our parish.”

How many more times do we have to listen to this from Priests (or in this case a deacon), underestimating and undervaluing the Divinity of Christ and His power to perform miracles. Nowadays it’s hard to find a Priest or deacon who will give a correct homily on this.

 

[docholmes]

It’s Called Modernist Theology when one talks of Christ urging those listening to his sermon to “Share” what they have. Our priest did this about 5 years ago and it unleashed a friend of mine into a fury and eventually ended with him under the Bus. Modernism is the thing that our Holy Father is trying to get us to see about Relativism. It does disrespect the divine nature of Christ by “making him a nice guy”. Was it that God wouldn’t or couldn’t feed the multitudes? NO, he fed them as he did in the desert, with Manna from Heaven.

 

[Pani_Rose]

INteresting Doc, thanks!

Unfortunately people are trying to bring ‘psychobable’ as my husband calls it, into the Scriptures.