Two questions on the Papacy and Infallibility

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CutlerB

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Dear friends,

we should trust that the Holy Spirit will guide the Cardinals to choose the right Pope the Church needs. I was thinking about the meaning of this recently, and seek your advice on two questions. One is directly related to the current situation, the other not really.


  1. *]Did God will there to be bad Popes, if the Holy Spirit guides the election by the Cardinals?
    *]Does Papal Infallibility mean that the Pope is prevented from (incapable of) uttering the sentence “I solemnly declare and define as a matter of faith for all the faithful to hold, that Jesus Christ is not God”?

    I’m trying to understand the exact meaning of Papal Infallibility, that’s why I ask the latter question. Thanks for helping. 🙂
 
CutlerB said:
Did God will there to be bad Popes, if the Holy Spirit guides the election by the Cardinals?
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No.

The cardinals have free will.
CutlerB said:
Does Papal Infallibility mean that the Pope is prevented from (incapable of) uttering the sentence “I solemnly declare and define as a matter of faith for all the faithful to hold, that Jesus Christ is not God”?
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Correct.
 
Papal infallibility is about the infallibility of the Church. His infallibility is borrowed from the Church. He merely acts as the official spokesman for the Church. He is the only one with the authority to do this.
In order to make an infallible statement the pope must first inquire of the bishops of the world and get their response. The bishops in turn will inquire of the faithful what they already believe on the subject and report back to the pope.
Even if a pope makes a statement he deems infallible, it still must pass the acid test of “general acceptance of the Faithful.” It’s a lot harder to make an ex cathedra statement than most people think.

Reb Levi
 
CutlerB said:
OK. 🙂 Seems like an easy way to prove God’s existence to me?
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A Pope, of all of the servants of Christ, would be the first one to remember that one should not tempt God - a lesson that Christ Himself gave us when he was in the desert.
 
R_C said:
A Pope, of all of the servants of Christ, would be the first one to remember that one should not tempt God - a lesson that Christ Himself gave us when he was in the desert.
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True. I forgot about that, but Lent is a good reminder.
 
drafdog said:
In order to make an infallible statement the pope must first inquire of the bishops of the world and get their response. The bishops in turn will inquire of the faithful what they already believe on the subject and report back to the pope.
Even if a pope makes a statement he deems infallible, it still must pass the acid test of “general acceptance of the Faithful.” It’s a lot harder to make an ex cathedra statement than most people think.
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This is NOT accuate at all.
 
drafdog said:
Papal infallibility is about the infallibility of the Church. His infallibility is borrowed from the Church. He merely acts as the official spokesman for the Church. He is the only one with the authority to do this.
In order to make an infallible statement the pope must first inquire of the bishops of the world and get their response. The bishops in turn will inquire of the faithful what they already believe on the subject and report back to the pope.
Even if a pope makes a statement he deems infallible, it still must pass the acid test of “general acceptance of the Faithful.” It’s a lot harder to make an ex cathedra statement than most people think.

Reb Levi
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This is false!
It is true that the Pope consults with his brother Bishops on matters that bears discussion and it is he that makes the announcements or proclamations of any conclusion they reach in communion! But he must examine and decide himself whether the ‘conclusion’ is correct or pertinent for the faithful. He has the ultimate responsibility for what he utters for all the faithful to follow, because once he utters it (public pronouncement) it cannot be undone - unless by himself or a subsequent Pope!

Papal Infallibity stems from this line from the Holy Lips of Christ; “…upon this [Cephas] I will build my church…WHATEVER you [loose / bound] here shall be [loose /bound] in Heaven…”
(emphasis and paraphrasing mine)

The embolden bit refers to MORE than just the absolving sins.

Of course, the entire passage must be read to see the specificity of singular election and the scope of the authority with the giving of The Keys of the Kingdom.
 
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