Two universes which are indistinguishable

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These two universes are: (1) The universe with structured fabric which changes is the result motion of the observant and (2) The universe that its fabric changes and the observer is static. This is true because the only thing which is available to us is motion.
 
STT, if they were truly indistinguishable, you wouldn’t be able to distinguish them as 1 and 2 in your hypothetical. Hence, the two are not truly indistinguishable in reality.

Maybe the observer in both cases can’t perceive a difference, but as they objectively exist they can be distinguished.

Or maybe I am responding to an argument you are not making?
 
Wesrock said:
STT, if they were truly indistinguishable, you wouldn’t be able to distinguish them as 1 and 2 in your hypothetical. Hence, the two are not truly indistinguishable in reality.
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I meant they are indistinguishable practically but we can abstract them.
Wesrock said:
Maybe the observer in both cases can’t perceive a difference, but as they objectively exist they can be distinguished.
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Yes.
Wesrock said:
Or maybe I am responding to an argument you are not making?
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I am making an argument.
 
Could you restate what the conclusion of your argument is?

I see that you stated that hypothetically, an observer could not tell the difference between 1 and 2. Therefore…?
 
Wesrock said:
Could you restate what the conclusion of your argument is?

I see that you stated that hypothetically, an observer could not tell the difference between 1 and 2. Therefore…?
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Could you imagine two universes?
 
STT said:
Could you imagine two universes?
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I can imagine any number of universes. That doesn’t actually tell us what you’re looking for in this post. You need to actually present a reason for this discussion to exist.
 
It sounds to me like you are doing the type of thought experiment that Einstein did to come up with his Special Theory Relativity. Basically one could say that the Universe is unique to the location of the observer. Stars that we can see might be long gone to a closer observer. The time lighting and thunder reach us is location dependent and so on.
 
ProdglArchitect said:
I can imagine any number of universes. That doesn’t actually tell us what you’re looking for in this post. You need to actually present a reason for this discussion to exist.
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I don’t understand what you are looking for.
 
PJH_74 said:
It sounds to me like you are doing the type of thought experiment that Einstein did to come up with his Special Theory Relativity. Basically one could say that the Universe is unique to the location of the observer. Stars that we can see might be long gone to a closer observer. The time lighting and thunder reach us is location dependent and so on.
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Yes.
 
STT said:
These two universes are: (1) The universe with structured fabric which changes is the result motion of the observant and (2) The universe that its fabric changes and the observer is static. This is true because the only thing which is available to us is motion.
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Maybe, but in the latter case you would have to explain how your attachment to a rocket makes the whole universe move while you feel a force and remain stationary. It shouldn’t be too hard to work out the equations. 🤓

This reminds me of an idea which you put forth last year, that negative numbers do not exist and are unnecessary because in all real scenarios you can add sufficiently large positive numbers to make all positions, velocities, and accelerations positive.
 
ProdglArchitect said:
Well, the, we’re even, because no one here has the slightest idea why you made this thread.
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Well, one can argue that future is known (1) or not known (2) by God depending on the type of universe we are living within. This means that one cannot argue in favor or against God’s omniscient based on what we are observing, motion.
 
Beryllos said:
Maybe, but in the latter case you would have to explain how your attachment to a rocket makes the whole universe move while you feel a force and remain stationary. It shouldn’t be too hard to work out the equations. 🤓
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An observer (for sake of the discussion in this thread) does not experience force but motion.
Beryllos said:
This reminds me of an idea which you put forth last year, that negative numbers do not exist and are unnecessary because in all real scenarios you can add sufficiently large positive numbers to make all positions, velocities, and accelerations positive.
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What do you think?
 
STT said:
Us.
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Then statement 2 make no sense, since we are part of the universe. We are directly involved, not impartial by-standers and so we cannot be static.
(1) The universe with structured fabric which changes is the result motion of the observant .
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This statement is structured strangely. I don’t know if you mean the observer’s motion causes changes in universe, or the universe changing causes motion in the observer.
 
seagal said:
Then statement 2 make no sense, since we are part of the universe. We are directly involved, not impartial by-standers and so we cannot be static.
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Whatever we experience, even our thoughts, are external to us. Therefor we are static. You believe in soul. Don’t you?
seagal said:
This statement is structured strangely. I don’t know if you mean the observer’s motion causes changes in universe, or the universe changing causes motion in the observer.
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It means that the cause and effect are illusionary. They are part of your experience of motion in a structured universe. No need to say that is what you believe, block universe.
 
STT said:
Whatever we experience, even our thoughts, are external to us. Therefor we are static. You believe in soul. Don’t you?
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Yes I believe in souls but I don’t see how my thoughts can be external to me. My thoughts are a function of my brain and my mind, they don’t exist apart from me.
 
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