Ukrainian Catholic

[Bolek]

Quick question.

I was baptised Roman Catholic and attend church every Sunday. Half my family is Roman Catholic the other is Ukrainian Catholic. Now both churches are recognized by Rome, if I wanted to become more involved in the Ukrainian Catholic church more often, is there any kind of initiations (baptism for example) that I could undergo? Or does memebership in one of the Rites mean membership in all of them?

Thanks, Bolek.

 

[Olympia]

I would also like an answer to Bolek’s question. I was baptized and educated as a Roman Catholic, but lately I have been attending a Greek Melchite church, also in communion with Rome.

 

[springbreeze]

Dear friend

I don’t know. There are alot of people here who know so much about the faith that you will certainly find someone who knows the answer, perhaps post a question on the ‘ask an apologist’ forum.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[Brendan]

One can attend Mass\Divine Liturgy at any Church in communion to Rome without hindrance.

You can even register at a parish of a different Rite. There is “one Baptism for the forgiveness of sin” so there is no new Baptism, no new Confirmation\Chrismation. No ‘conversion’ as we are all part of one Body, unified in Christ.

If you intent to participate more fully in the a parish of a different Rite, you should probably seek permission from your Bishop to practice the discipline of the other Church. Technically speaking, if one is a Latin Rite Catholic, one is bound to the Holy Days of Obligation and the fasting disciplines defined by the Latin Ordinary, regardless of what parish you are attending.

But a Bishop will almost always grant permission to follow the disciplines of another Catholic Rite

If one actually wants to change Rites, you must seek permission from both Bishops. The parish pastor can help you with that, but in most cases it will only be done if you have actively been participating in a parish for a year or so.

One thing you did not mention was which parent was Ukrainian Catholic. Membership in a *sui juris * Church follows the paternal Church, regardless of which priest does the Baptizing. So it your father is Ukrainian Catholic, so are you.

 

[Saint_Andrew]

Hello

I was baptised and confirmed as an Eastern Rite Ukraine Catholic,
for my late father was Ukrainain.

But attended Roman Catholic Masses, since I was a child.

God Bless
Saint Andrew.

 

[springbreeze]

Dear Brendan and Andrew

Thank you for teaching about our faith. I learn so much from others here. Thank you very much.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[Volodymyr]

Bolek:

As you are very young perhaps could you get to know both Ukraina and Ukrainian Church. Many young Americans have come to Ukraina, most especially to West, to L’viv for teaching English. Even go to Carpathian mountains at Ski Camps for such courses. Arranged through Ukrainian Catholic University in L’viv. You should also learn Ukrainian and learn about Church while here. Visit Kyiv and see origins of all Churches at Pecherska Lavra. Many come to visit village of Grandparents. I hope you a wonderful experience.

 

[Hesychios]

As stated above, the two bishops must approve. The procedure involves writing to the bishop of the church one wishes to transfer into. Provided that he approves (one should acculturate into the new church first) the letter will be forwarded to one’s bishop in the original church. Not long ago all such requests for transfer were handled by Rome, the current practice is that if the two local bishops agree the approval of Rome can be presumed.

This process is necessary to make sure that there are no impediments to a person’s good standing (all I can think of is a possible excommmunication someone is trying to hide, but some RC are not actually registered in a parish and if no record can be found the Latin bishop will not approve).

The Byzantine Catholics (these are the group I am familiar with) do not impose catechesis on registered adult Romans because it is not considered a formal conversion, so it will likely be some time before a latin rite Catholic will be used to living according to the Byzantine Calendar, fasting and worshiping as a Byzantine and understanding the spirituality as expressed there. Each bishop sets his own requirements of the time it takes to become acclimated. (I have noted one to three years). Those actually seeking to transfer should ask for instruction or sign up when it is offered.

By Byzantine Catholic I refer to the Byzantine-Ruthenian, Ukrainian, Slovak (in Canada) and Melkite churches in North America.

The letter requesting transfer must say nothing derogatory about the sister church the believer is originating from (surprisingly, some people have a negative opinion of their church’s practice or liturgy), it will surely be rejected. Likewise the local Eastern priest will probably get a call from the bishop to discuss the individuals’ level of commitment, such as to verify that the person has been living, worshipping. contributing/supporting $$ (perhaps volunteering) and confessing as a Byzantine.

No sincere individual will be denied, but it hardly makes a difference. Many Roman Catholics worship as Byzantines most of their own lives without bothering to make a formal transfer, and those individuals who come from Byzantine parents (particularly the father) will remain Byzantines (unless they request a change) even if they always worship with the Roman church, this is canon law. Thus, Saint Andrew who has posted above is actually a Byzantine-Ukrainian Catholic because of his father even if he does not identify with it, he may chose to transfer into the latin rite (although it will not change his life any) and would be required to if he was to pursue Holy Orders in the Latin church.

I know that I have written a lot here, but I hope that I have not confused anyone.

 

[Hesychios]

Brendan:

If you intent to participate more fully in the a parish of a different Rite, you should probably seek permission from your Bishop to practice the discipline of the other Church. Technically speaking, if one is a Latin Rite Catholic, one is bound to the Holy Days of Obligation and the fasting disciplines defined by the Latin Ordinary, regardless of what parish you are attending.

This entire post is quite correct.

I don’t think the bishop would care much about it, although I think that this answer is technically correct. I have known many Latin church priests on a personal level and none of them ever suggested that I seek the permission of the bishop.

When I first thought to transfer I struggled to keep up the Holy days of both calendars, but it was very demanding and quite confusing. As we know, the calendar has a theme of it’s own the two are not in sync. I eventually just followed the Byzantine calendar without getting any formal approval of it, my new priest was totally unconcerned, as far as he knew I was A-OK.

I would recommend seeking the blessing of one’s old pastor and while doing so ask his opinion about writing downtown to the chancery for permission, he would probably say “forget it” or offer to make the call for you.

+T+
Michael

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Hesychios,
You are spot on until you say this.

Hesychios:

No sincere individual will be denied, but it hardly makes a difference. Many Roman Catholics worship as Byzantines most of their own lives without bothering to make a formal transfer, and those individuals who come from Byzantine parents (particularly the father) will remain Byzantines (unless they request a change) even if they always worship with the Roman church, this is canon law. Thus, Saint Andrew who has posted above is actually a Byzantine-Ukrainian Catholic because of his father even if he does not identify with it, he may chose to transfer into the latin rite (although it will not change his life any) and would be required to if he was to pursue Holy Orders in the Latin church.

As you may be aware, I am a Byzantine-Ruthenian Catholic, even though I was baptised and chrismated within the Roman Church because my father is one.

I am also pursuing a vocation to the religious life and priesthood. I am in the application process of joining the Brothers of Our Lady of Mount Carmel (otherwise known as the Carmelites).

This is a Latin Order but I do not have to make a change in my church. Now if one wishes to pursue Holy Orders within a Latin Diocese, then yes they must change Church, but not to enter a Latin religious order.

 

[Hesychios]

ByzCath:

Hesychios,
You are spot on until you say this.

As you may be aware, I am a Byzantine-Ruthenian Catholic, even though I was baptised and chrismated within the Roman Church because my father is one.

Yes! I remember

I am also pursuing a vocation to the religious life and priesthood. I am in the application process of joining the Brothers of Our Lady of Mount Carmel (otherwise known as the Carmelites).

This is a Latin Order but I do not have to make a change in my church. Now if one wishes to pursue Holy Orders within a Latin Diocese, then yes they must change Church, but not to enter a Latin religious order.

I knew you were going forward with this and I had wondered how it was progressing. I had always admired the Carmelites. I have a special attachment to John of the Cross.

Thank you very much for the correction, I would not have known otherwise, I am always learning.

In the Trinity,
Michael

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Hesychios:

I knew you were going forward with this and I had wondered how it was progressing. I had always admired the Carmelites. I have a special attachment to John of the Cross.

Thank you very much for the correction, I would not have known otherwise, I am always learning.

In the Trinity,
Michael

We are all always learning. That is one of my most favorite things in life. The day I know it all is the day I am done.

As for my progress, I have the application in, I underwent a psych evaluation and I had interviews with members of the admissions committee last weekend. I should hear something by the middle of July.

I got a book, the Collected Works of St John of the Cross, I am going to start reading it today. Its funny though, I picked it up at the local Trappists Monastery after I met with my spiritual director.

 

[Irish_Melkite]

Dear Bolek and Olympia,

My brothers and friends, Brendan, Michael, and David have all given you excellent and accurate answers.

For a detailed description of the process of Petitioning for a Change of Canonical Enrollment, the formal name for moving from one sui iuris Church to another, you can take a look at Posts #6 thru #10 of Latin Rite Catholics & Eastern Rite Sacraments.

Olympia, if you don’t mind my asking, are you attending St. Ann’s or St. Ann’s? (it’s a joke - both our CT parishes - Danbury, pastored by Father Ed, and Waterford, pastored by Father Mike, are dedicated to St. Ann)

Many years,

Neil

 

[Bolek]

Volodymyr:

Bolek:

As you are very young perhaps could you get to know both Ukraina and Ukrainian Church. Many young Americans have come to Ukraina, most especially to West, to L’viv for teaching English. Even go to Carpathian mountains at Ski Camps for such courses. Arranged through Ukrainian Catholic University in L’viv. You should also learn Ukrainian and learn about Church while here. Visit Kyiv and see origins of all Churches at Pecherska Lavra. Many come to visit village of Grandparents. I hope you a wonderful experience.

That actually sounds like an awesome idea. My cousin did something similar, he’s teaching English in Korea right now. But learn Ukrainian fully, visit the homeland and get paid? Sounds like a dream come true, perhaps once I finish my University degree several years from now. My grandfather use to ski on the Carpathians when he was young with his own skis I would love to follow up this idea it would be a wonderful life experience.

 

[Bolek]

Thanks everyone for the replys. I guess the next step is to talk with my family and priest and go from there. I appreciate all the posts thanks a lot. To answer a question, my mother is Ukrainian Catholic, my father is Polish so I guess that makes me of the Latin rite as I have been my whole life. As for the other calendar, we celebrate it already, 2x christmas, 2x easter 2x the perogies.