C
Cathoholic
Guest
. . . continued (on sola fide issue) . . .
Catholics affirm ALL the verses and add the word “alone” to none of them when it is not there.
So it is very uncomfortable for Protestants when Catholics start asking them about verses that discuss the importance and necessity of works and the actual verses that allude to the necessity of good works to get to Heaven (either implicitly or explicitly).
I once had a Protestant friend say: “OK. How many good works do you need to get to Heaven and which ones? Where is the “check list”?”
This is a reflection of the Protestant mindset looking for everything to be written down (a checklist mentality or a sola Scriptura mentality).
I said: “Well Rick, I could ask the same thing. How much faith do you need? Do you need the faith the “size” of a mustard seed or more? You have the same issue Rick only you are blind to it. The fact is Rick, that’s WHY we are judged by God. You do the best you can to allow SUPERNATURAL faith, hope, and charity to be lived out in and through you, and trust God will be Salvific on your judgment day Rick”.
He actually could see it (but did not change his beliefs based upon what he could now see as truth). I backed up these arguments with Bible verses and kept asking him if he affirmed this verse and that verse.
When confronted with the parable of the sheep and goats or other clear teachings on the necessity of works, Protestants often punt and start to attack a straw man saying something like: “Well WE believe we are justified by faith Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 3:28, and Galatians 2:16”, you Catholics DON’T!”
But we as Catholics DO affirm these verses too.
But the Protestant has to keep telling themselves that Catholics do not believe in these verses while ADDING the word “ALONE” (“SOLA”) to these verses in their minds when the word “ALONE” isn’t there in the texts. Why?
Perhaps because it causes too much cognitive dissonance in them. They cannot bring themselves to saying: Well this is God’s truth, but I am obstinately not going to affirm it anyway!” Or maybe it is just because there are spiritual blocks here causing blindness. Or maybe some other reasons or combination of reasons.
Look Bob, if you want, I can post more verses that talk about the necessity of works. If you already know them, I won’t bother. I can also post Catholic Catechetical teachings that talk about the necessity of faith (to prevent you from the straw man of “Well you Catholics don’t believe you are justified by FAITH. We Protestants affirm Paul. You Catholics don’t!”).
Or if you want a few more verses about any other topic we touched on above, I would be more than happy to do the homework and post them–it’s not too much work actually.
Not much work because we have (actually “had” as right now we are on hold while I am trying to get through a cancer thing and my strength and immunity are not up to par–but hopefully we will be starting back up in the future–if not, that is God’s will too and I rejoice in it either way) – we have a Catholic Bible study group here just loaded with good strong “Evangelical Catholics” where way too many verses and Catechetical and historical statements and Council quotes are probably brought out—way more than we need—to really hammer home these points for our group. So it is almost as easy as cut and paste frequently.
Your call Bob.
I hope this helps.
God bless.
Cathoholic
Catholics affirm ALL the verses and add the word “alone” to none of them when it is not there.
So it is very uncomfortable for Protestants when Catholics start asking them about verses that discuss the importance and necessity of works and the actual verses that allude to the necessity of good works to get to Heaven (either implicitly or explicitly).
I once had a Protestant friend say: “OK. How many good works do you need to get to Heaven and which ones? Where is the “check list”?”
This is a reflection of the Protestant mindset looking for everything to be written down (a checklist mentality or a sola Scriptura mentality).
I said: “Well Rick, I could ask the same thing. How much faith do you need? Do you need the faith the “size” of a mustard seed or more? You have the same issue Rick only you are blind to it. The fact is Rick, that’s WHY we are judged by God. You do the best you can to allow SUPERNATURAL faith, hope, and charity to be lived out in and through you, and trust God will be Salvific on your judgment day Rick”.
He actually could see it (but did not change his beliefs based upon what he could now see as truth). I backed up these arguments with Bible verses and kept asking him if he affirmed this verse and that verse.
When confronted with the parable of the sheep and goats or other clear teachings on the necessity of works, Protestants often punt and start to attack a straw man saying something like: “Well WE believe we are justified by faith Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 3:28, and Galatians 2:16”, you Catholics DON’T!”
But we as Catholics DO affirm these verses too.
But the Protestant has to keep telling themselves that Catholics do not believe in these verses while ADDING the word “ALONE” (“SOLA”) to these verses in their minds when the word “ALONE” isn’t there in the texts. Why?
Perhaps because it causes too much cognitive dissonance in them. They cannot bring themselves to saying: Well this is God’s truth, but I am obstinately not going to affirm it anyway!” Or maybe it is just because there are spiritual blocks here causing blindness. Or maybe some other reasons or combination of reasons.
Look Bob, if you want, I can post more verses that talk about the necessity of works. If you already know them, I won’t bother. I can also post Catholic Catechetical teachings that talk about the necessity of faith (to prevent you from the straw man of “Well you Catholics don’t believe you are justified by FAITH. We Protestants affirm Paul. You Catholics don’t!”).
Or if you want a few more verses about any other topic we touched on above, I would be more than happy to do the homework and post them–it’s not too much work actually.
Not much work because we have (actually “had” as right now we are on hold while I am trying to get through a cancer thing and my strength and immunity are not up to par–but hopefully we will be starting back up in the future–if not, that is God’s will too and I rejoice in it either way) – we have a Catholic Bible study group here just loaded with good strong “Evangelical Catholics” where way too many verses and Catechetical and historical statements and Council quotes are probably brought out—way more than we need—to really hammer home these points for our group. So it is almost as easy as cut and paste frequently.
Your call Bob.
I hope this helps.
God bless.
Cathoholic
