Unbridled Capitalism

[Joey97]

Hi all! I have a question that I hope some may answer! My question is this, what is “unbridled capitalism” and can support it in good conscience? I’ve heard this spoken by multiple Popes, and I always thought of it as capitalism with no regulation. Is this similar or equal to the Austrian or Chicago schools of economic thought? Thanks!

 

[Monte_RCMS]

First define capitalism.

[And then somehow explain the stock market and the purchase of common stock by small investors as part of their IRA or 401(k) or other plans.]

 

[DarkLight]

My understanding is it’s more a moral condemnation than a condemnation of any particular system. Simply put, “unbridled capitalism” is a capitalist system in which profits are pursued to the exclusion of such moral goods as ensuring workers can earn a living wage or caring for those unable to work.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

My understanding is it’s more a moral condemnation than a condemnation of any particular system. Simply put, “unbridled capitalism” is a capitalist system in which profits are pursued to the exclusion of such moral goods as ensuring workers can earn a living wage or caring for those unable to work.

What is the definition of a “profit”?

 

[DarkLight]

What is the definition of a “profit”?

A gain in currency or material goods that is worth more (in currency/trade value) than the value of the currency/goods put into the venture.

 

[Billy112]

Hi all! I have a question that I hope some may answer! My question is this, what is “unbridled capitalism” and can support it in good conscience? I’ve heard this spoken by multiple Popes, and I always thought of it as capitalism with no regulation. Is this similar or equal to the Austrian or Chicago schools of economic thought? Thanks!

Look at the mills in Gastonia, NC in the 1920’s and the mines of the same era. Child labor, workers exposed to carcinogens, unbearably loud noises, dangerous equipment, long hours for little pay which, for mill workers, went to the company store which they would then become hopelessly indebted to. The mill owners, at one point, decided to try and get more output while, at the same time, cutting 50% of the work force. They thought they would just make the remaining workers work harder than they already were. Laborers were blocked from protesting and hounded by gangs of thugs which included some police involvement; look up the death of Ella May Wiggins.

I would throw in the for-profit prison system, too.

In short, when companies decide it’s OK to destroy the environment and treat people as throw-away objects, it’s gone too far. Pope Francis said, "When money, instead of man, is at the center of the system, when money becomes an idol, men and women are reduced to simple instruments of a social and economic system.”

 

[exnihilo]

Unbridled capitalism is the current economic system. No matter how much regulation and government oversight we have leftists always call the system, and any perceived failure, capitalism. That is because they start with the premise that government is all good and perfect. So any failures can’t be the fault of the state.

 

[mikekle]

Look at the mills in Gastonia, NC in the 1920’s and the mines of the same era. Child labor, workers exposed to carcinogens, unbearably loud noises, dangerous equipment, long hours for little pay which, for mill workers, went to the company store which they would then become hopelessly indebted to. The mill owners, at one point, decided to try and get more output while, at the same time, cutting 50% of the work force. They thought they would just make the remaining workers work harder than they already were. Laborers were blocked from protesting and hounded by gangs of thugs which included some police involvement; look up the death of Ella May Wiggins.

I would throw in the for-profit prison system, too.

In short, when companies decide it’s OK to destroy the environment and treat people as throw-away objects, it’s gone too far. Pope Francis said, "When money, instead of man, is at the center of the system, when money becomes an idol, men and women are reduced to simple instruments of a social and economic system.”

Yep, Greed is pretty much the heart and soul of the US and many other countries now, company owners take advantage of cheap labor in foreign nations so they can ship them back to the US and jack up the price, increasing profits year after year.

All this going on and I have literally heard nothing said about greed in my church for years, its more than tolerated, its accepted and for the most part, encouraged.

The for profit prisons are something else entirely, its greed completely out of control, to the point of imposing a stricter and stricter police state, all for the sake of profits.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Hi all! I have a question that I hope some may answer! My question is this, what is “unbridled capitalism” and can support it in good conscience? I’ve heard this spoken by multiple Popes, and I always thought of it as capitalism with no regulation. Is this similar or equal to the Austrian or Chicago schools of economic thought? Thanks!

It doesn’t work, because then you have monopolies which undermine institutions like free speech.

BTW, no one today is even arguing for this much at all, and even if someone were, they don’t have any real power or influence like the folks on the opposite end of the spectrum.

The true conscience of capitalism that gave us the First World are Judeo-Christian values.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Yep, Greed is pretty much the heart and soul of the US and many other countries now, company owners take advantage of cheap labor in foreign nations so they can ship them back to the US and jack up the price, increasing profits year after year.

The reason why most companies do this is it’s either that or pay the very high US corporate tax rate and fire workers giving the money to the government to waste. But for giants like Google, you’d have to ask them why such a liberal company can’t pay its fair share. I suspect for the same reasons that they don’t publicly want to admit.

All this going on and I have literally heard nothing said about greed in my church for years, its more than tolerated, its accepted and for the most part, encouraged.

No it isn’t. Greed is attacked all of the time (often erroneously) by the Western left.

The for profit prisons are something else entirely, its greed completely out of control, to the point of imposing a stricter and stricter police state, all for the sake of profits.

Excessive regulations = police state.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Capitalism always needs some form of regulation, because capitalists are sinners. Now, how the regulation should occur is something that is subject to our prudential judgement. For example, competition is a form of regulation. There is a store near me that has a very generous return policy, they have that policy not because they are benevolent, not because the government told them too, but because of competition. In markets that are not competitive, problems can occur. This can sometimes be used to justify government intervention. The problem is, who regulates the government? The problem is, government bureaucrats are sinners too. And so are consumers so we have this system where nobody can really be trusted. When it works, it really works well. But when it fails, it can have some big disasters.

 

[Joey97]

It doesn’t work, because then you have monopolies which undermine institutions like free speech.

BTW, no one today is even arguing for this much at all, and even if someone were, they don’t have any real power or influence like the folks on the opposite end of the spectrum.

The true conscience of capitalism that gave us the First World are Judeo-Christian values.

If I’m not mistaken, hasn’t the Chicago School in economics won the most Nobel prizes concerning economics? I would think that there is at least some reason as to why that is the case.

Also, I must confess that I have read some works from economists in the Austrian school concerning monopolies. I do think that there is a strong case (both economically and historically) for monopolies not being naturally created by capitalism, but through local governments literally creating monopolies. I know that the city of Baltimore, for example, made a deal with a company to allow them to become a monopoly a couple of centuries ago (drawing a blank on the name of the company).

I’ve been trying to become more economically literate recently so I tried touching up on the economic schools of thought. I don’t think any variation of Keynesian economics has really proven to be viable compared to the Chicago/Austrian schools. And since these schools support less regulation if not unbridled capitalism, I’m wondering if one could support these in good conscience as per Church teaching.

 

[Billy112]

If I’m not mistaken, hasn’t the Chicago School in economics won the most Nobel prizes concerning economics? I would think that there is at least some reason as to why that is the case.

Also, I must confess that I have read some works from economists in the Austrian school concerning monopolies. I do think that there is a strong case (both economically and historically) for monopolies not being naturally created by capitalism, but through local governments literally creating monopolies. I know that the city of Baltimore, for example, made a deal with a company to allow them to become a monopoly a couple of centuries ago (drawing a blank on the name of the company).

I’ve been trying to become more economically literate recently so I tried touching up on the economic schools of thought. I don’t think any variation of Keynesian economics has really proven to be viable compared to the Chicago/Austrian schools. And since these schools support less regulation if not unbridled capitalism, I’m wondering if one could support these in good conscience as per Church teaching.

The Rise of Big Government in the United States by John F. Walker and Harold K. Vatter is an interesting read and goes through some of the benefits of Keynesian-style policy, such as the economic stimulus during the great depression. t’s a pretty thick read, though, so it’s definitely a book for when you’ve got some time on your hands. I had it as one of my textbooks in a course about the history of the US Economy since WWII.

 

[Joey97]

The Rise of Big Government in the United States by John F. Walker and Harold K. Vatter is an interesting read and goes through some of the benefits of Keynesian-style policy, such as the economic stimulus during the great depression. t’s a pretty thick read, though, so it’s definitely a book for when you’ve got some time on your hands. I had it as one of my textbooks in a course about the history of the US Economy since WWII.

Thanks! I’ll definitely look into it!

 

[Theo520]

Hi all! I have a question that I hope some may answer! My question is this, what is “unbridled capitalism” and can support it in good conscience? I’ve heard this spoken by multiple Popes, and I always thought of it as capitalism with no regulation. Is this similar or equal to the Austrian or Chicago schools of economic thought? Thanks!

Unbridled capitalism is a boogie man, it doesn’t exist. Might as well use the term unbridled greed, it would be more descriptive of the intent of the speaker.

Capitalism doesn’t work without regulation, it falls apart. And people who engage in capitalism are for the most part not driven by unbridled greed. But capitalism works effectively against unbridled greed, since if you are making huge profits, it attracts competitors who will innovate and undercut your pricing.

The real evil comes when business colludes with Govt and creates monopolies or unreasonable barriers for competitors to enter the game. Monopolies are the closest real world example we have of unbridled greed hurting people.