Understanding "Faith"

[casabolg]

I’m quite confused about the concept of “faith” generally. Particularly when I’ve heard people say that it doesn’t deal with belief in propositions but an appetitive trust and seeking of God.

Without the belief of propositions (God as a creator, specific theological concepts, etc) how does one trust “God”? It seems even acknowledging God relies on propositions. The only clear way I can think of in acknowledging God without belief in theological propositions is through the lens of “God is love”. Would that mean that faith is not at its core really belief in the theological concepts of Christianity (though it can lead into that) but a trust in love entirely? Love being defined in the classical understanding - “Willing the good of the other without self-interest”.

And how exactly is faith a gift to us from God?

 

[Pallas_Athene]

I’m quite confused about the concept of “faith” generally. Particularly when I’ve heard people say that it doesn’t deal with belief in propositions but an appetitive trust and seeking of God.

Without the belief of propositions (God as a creator, specific theological concepts, etc) how does one trust “God”? It seems even acknowledging God relies on propositions. The only clear way I can think of in acknowledging God without belief in theological propositions is through the lens of “God is love”. Would that mean that faith is not at its core really belief in the theological concepts of Christianity (though it can lead into that) but a trust in love entirely? Love being defined in the classical understanding - “Willing the good of the other without self-interest”.

And how exactly is faith a gift to us from God?

The word “faith” is used in many different relations.

Hebrews 11:1 says: “Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see”. Which actually describes “wishful thinking” based upon “blind acceptance” of something that one does not have evidence for.

On the other side of the spectrum, some people call “faith” anything and everything for which we do not have absolute, Cartesian certainty. This last usage happens when some apologists wish to wash away the difference between “I have faith that I will win the jackpot on Powerball this week”, and “I believe that my car will start tomorrow”. In other words they do not want to see the difference between “blind faith” and “reasonable expectations”.

My favorite t-shirt said: “Everybody must believe in something, so I believe I will have another beer”.

As for the classical definition of “love” as “Willing the good of the other without self-interest”, I am certainly as loving as God. I “will” the good for everyone else, without any self interest. The minor trouble is that I usually don’t have the power to act on this noble “love”. When I can, I act on it, of course. On the other hand God is supposed to have the power to ACT in the best interest of humans, just there is absolutely no sign that he does so. “Willing” (or wishing) without “acting” is just baloney.

As for your last question, I am in the dark, just as you are. Obviously I never received that “gift”, so I lack the “theological virtue” of faith. And why is blind acceptance a “virtue”, now that is beyond me.

The picture is even more complicated. Sometimes “faith” is offered as an epistemological tool, which can replace “reason” when it comes to claims of the supernatural. It is asserted that some things are a “mystery”, especially when the claim is nonsensical or self-contradictory. They say: “The trinity is a mystery, and you just have to accept on faith”. Just look at the line in the Apostle’s creed: “He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.” How can one sit on the right hand of himself?

And finally, to add insult to injury, some people assert that “not believing in God requires more faith than believing.”

 

[wmw]

Advancing to a state of being faithful.

The intellectual path is not alone, humanity has more than this. For example a sense of the spiritual and a path of prayer. Yet, for the moment lets stick with more solid evidence.

There are things that He has communicated to us that we need to hear and compare to other viewpoints. In this comparison there is good evidence for Christianity. Let me copy in a list of examples:

Jesus rose from the dead
First on the list of evidence that Christianity is from God is that Jesus Christ was executed, but did not remain dead. Christianity says Jesus is alive and that His followers will live forever with Him after death in a completely new universe. The Bible provides the evidence that Jesus rose from the dead:

1. Jesus’ empty tomb
2. Jesus’ postmortem appearances
3. Short time between events and eyewitness claims
4. Extraordinary transformation of the apostles
5. Paul’s conversion
6. Emergence of the Christian Church
7. Emergence of Sunday as a day of worship
   How does Christianity deal with objections to Jesus’ resurrection they are not blindly dismissed, but examined and it has been found that those objections lack logical consistency, explanatory power, fidelity to the known facts, and often use unwarranted assumptions and claims that lack any objective support. There is clear evidence that Christianity is from God thorough a very logical defense of the resurrection of Jesus Christ and rebuttal to alternative historical explanations.

A fined tuned cosmos
Another evidence that Christianity is from God is that God created the universe ex nihilo (out of nothing) and finely tuned it for our benefit. The biblical claim contradicts many of the other prevalent worldviews, including pantheism, absolute naturalism, and the idea that matter (or the universe) is eternal. This goes on to show how the biblical claim refutes many of the speculative claims of naturalism and other religions.

Clear pointers to God in nature and our nature
Evidence that Christianity is from God is that Christianity has from exploration of His creation found clear pointers to God. Compare the explanatory power of atheism compared to Christian theism in the areas of the existence of the universe, beginning of the universe, the order and design of the universe, the ability of human beings to investigate the universe, abstract, nonphysical entities (e.g., mathematics, logic, moral values, etc.), and the existence of conscious beings.

He came to us, we didn’t make Him
Of all the things that distinguish Christianity from other world religions the most striking is the Christian claim that a person cannot become acceptable to God on the basis of one’s own effort. According to This, “Christianity at its heart is a religion not of self-help but of divine rescue.” So, although human beings grade each other on the basis of a curve or passing percentage, God judges on the basis of His own moral perfection. However, the good news of Christianity is that God has created by His grace through faith in Jesus Christ and His sacrifice on our behalf. Christianity’s evidence that it is not a human endeavor radically changes the way we see God. Jesus is not merely a good moral example and teacher, but the means by which people can receive the free gift of salvation and eternal life with Him.

Humanity’s value and dignity
One of the greatest differences between the naturalistic worldview and the Christian worldview comes from the understanding of humanity. According to naturalism, human beings are merely advanced apes. However, Christianity says that human beings were the only creatures created in the image of God—setting them apart from the rest of the animal kingdom. The assertion has huge moral implications. In fact, the Bible declares that murder is evil because humans beings are created in God’s image. This underlying claim is why Christians believe human life must be protected against murder. In his second chapter, This outlines seven ways in which humans are distinct from all other of God’s creatures:

1. Have an inherently spiritual nature
2. Possess unique intellectual, cultural and communicative abilities
3. Conscious of time, reality, and truth
4. Possess a conscience and legislate morality
5. Are uniquely inventive and technological
6. Possess a curiosity to explore and understand nature
7. Appreciate aesthetics and art
   Although these characteristics are thought to be good, because human beings are fallen and sinful, these traits can be used to perpetrate even more hideous acts of evil. The paradox of human greatness coupled with human depravity is best explained through the Christian worldview of the dual nature of human beings.

The good in suffering
Evidence that Christianity is from God includes that evil and suffering can lead to a greater good. There are two main things that contribute to evil and suffering—natural evil and moral evil. When examining how other worldviews handle the concept of evil and suffering you find they just ignore the issue or say it is not the main problem in the world. Atheists say that there is too much evil in the world for God to be both omnipotent (completely powerful) and omni-benevolent (perfectly good). This points out that the atheists’ assumption that God would want to eliminate all evil right now is without justification. According to the Bible, God will destroy all evil at the end of the world. In the meantime, God allows evil for the possibility of a greater good that people might choose.

So, Christian Faith is not a blind faith we are careful to examine and find the truth of what has been communicated to us about our faith.

 

[pgepps]

I’m quite confused about the concept of “faith” generally. Particularly when I’ve heard people say that it doesn’t deal with belief in propositions but an appetitive trust and seeking of God.
…
And how exactly is faith a gift to us from God?

I think when you think of this “appetitive trust and seeking,” and how it relates to voluntary assent to truth (true belief) and keeping troth (being faithful), it would be best to think in terms of God’s action in Creation and Redemption.

God knows the desireable end for each of us, for He has chosen it and takes all steps to perform it; yet he does not do so without our participation, so that we too must be led to desire the good He desires for us, and to cooperate in His work of making us fit for that desireable end. That end has many characteristics, but its essential and definitive characteristic is “friendship with God.”

Friendship, that is, dwelling in charity with God or any person, has three hallmarks: seeking good for another, mutually expecting good from each other, and real sharing in that good (see newadvent.org/summa/3023.htm II.II.32.1).

But our entry into such a friendship with God is complicated by our sin and by the changeableness in our nature, and so God offers us virtues which lead us to charity, to friendship with Him, called “faith” and “hope.”

As you say, or as the author of Hebrews says, “without faith it is impossible to please God, for whoever comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.” But notice that “faith” in this sense is not merely recall of statements, nor even merely notional assent (“Yes, I can admit this might well be true”). This faith is real assent, assent which interlocks with hope and admits the possibility of friendship with God, so that we expect the good from Him and believe it is possible to be drawn to Him.

Of these, faith is most concerned with recognizing what God has shared, so we do talk most about assenting to reality, believing what both reason and revelation tell us, when we talk about faith. Especially, we talk about “faith” as the ability to build our lives on realities we never would have grasped without revelation, realities essential to friendship with God.

“Hope” has more to do with not only the expectation of good from God, but even the appetite for that good (like when you suddenly discover you’re hungry because a delicious meal has been set before you, the imminent satisfaction strengthening the desire). And “charity” is the whole thing itself, the enjoyment of friendship with God so total that it makes for friendship with all other people, too.

These overlap; it is almost impossible to talk fruitfully about any of the theological virtues without talking of all the others.

Viewed in the order of generation, faith could be said to contain hope in seed form, and faith/hope to contain charity in seed form; but viewed in the order of causation, charity is the full flower and fruit, without which we would not care for the plant at all.

Faith always “involves” hope, and faith/hope always “involves” charity, and trying to have any without the others sterilizes them all.

 

[SPBlitz]

As Pallas said, the word ‘faith’ has multiple meanings in Christianity.

As you both mentioned before, Christianity sometimes talks of faith as being a virtue. At one point, I agreed that it seemed odd. How could faith (at least, in the definition of believing in something you couldn’t prove) be a virtue?

I think that C.S. Lewis explains it best, and I suggest reading his chapter on it in Mere Christianity. In a nutshell, he defines faith (or at least, faith in the sense of a virtue) as persistence in a belief through our changing emotional states.

Often times our belief in things can be influenced by our emotional states. Some people (myself included) will gladly believe in God when they are happy, and then doubt when they are depressed (note that I’m talking about depression in the sense of our normal emotional fluctuations, not medical depression or depression due to a legitimate tragedy). Lewis describes it as our emotions ‘blitzing’ our beliefs. If viewed in this way, it’s easier to see how faith can be a virtue for both Christians and Atheists. Someone who lacked faith in this sense would never be able to hold on to a belief for any length of time. “Unless you teach your moods ‘where they get off’, you can never be either a sound Christian or even a sound Atheist, but just a creature dithering to and from, with its beliefs really dependent on the weather and the state of its digestion.”

Of course, Lewis devotes a whole chapter to subject, so I suggested referring to Mere Christianity if you want to read more.

 

[Flopfoot]

I have heard that faith means “to act as if something is true”. If my mom gives me a plate of food I have reason to believe it’s not poison but can’t actually prove it without doing a chemical analysis. If I eat it anyway, that’s faith.

 

[Sacred_Heart_1]

I’m quite confused about the concept of “faith” generally. Particularly when I’ve heard people say that it doesn’t deal with belief in propositions but an appetitive trust and seeking of God.

Without the belief of propositions (God as a creator, specific theological concepts, etc) how does one trust “God”? It seems even acknowledging God relies on propositions. The only clear way I can think of in acknowledging God without belief in theological propositions is through the lens of “God is love”. Would that mean that faith is not at its core really belief in the theological concepts of Christianity (though it can lead into that) but a trust in love entirely? Love being defined in the classical understanding - “Willing the good of the other without self-interest”.

And how exactly is faith a gift to us from God?

I think you are complicating Faith for yourself. Faith is simple. Faith is just coming to Jesus, continually. Faith is a gift to us From God because He makes Himself known to us so that we can come to him continually.

 

[fhansen]

I’m quite confused about the concept of “faith” generally. Particularly when I’ve heard people say that it doesn’t deal with belief in propositions but an appetitive trust and seeking of God.

Without the belief of propositions (God as a creator, specific theological concepts, etc) how does one trust “God”? It seems even acknowledging God relies on propositions. The only clear way I can think of in acknowledging God without belief in theological propositions is through the lens of “God is love”. Would that mean that faith is not at its core really belief in the theological concepts of Christianity (though it can lead into that) but a trust in love entirely? Love being defined in the classical understanding - “Willing the good of the other without self-interest”.

And how exactly is faith a gift to us from God?

Protestantism generally conflates faith and hope (hope as understood in Catholicism as confidence or trust), whereas in Catholic theology the two are kept separate. In common usage, however, we sometimes combine them as well. In any case the three virtues St Paul mentions in 1Cor 13, faith, hope, and love, are considered to be supernatural gifts, called “theological virtues”, unattainable on our own without grace. We cannot, on our own, come to know and believe in the Christian God, the miracles of Christ, the ressurection, the whole revelation, without God’s help, let alone place our hope in those truths-in Him and His promises- let alone come to love God with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength and our neighbor as ourselves, which is the ultimate perfection of holiness. At any rate, this holiness, this justification, begins with faith, as a response to God’s initiative, to grace. Faith is the knowledge of God, the recognition of His existence, the reestablishment of the basic relationship or communion with Him that was shattered at the Fall. It is the fulfillment of the New Covenant prophecy of Jer 31:34, where ‘all will know Him’, and whereupon God undertakes to do the work in us, of justification for salvation, of 31:33.

 

[Ignatius]

I’m quite confused about the concept of “faith” generally. Particularly when I’ve heard people say that it doesn’t deal with belief in propositions but an appetitive trust and seeking of God.

That’s not really a Catholic view of Faith. We believe in Faith and Reason. In fact there is a great Encyclical by St. Pope John Paul II on that very subject. You can get it here:
catholic-pages.com/documents/fides_et_ratio.pdf