Unforgivable Sin

[mercyangel]

Today at mass, the priest who gave the homily was talking about the Gospel reading concerning the unforgivable sin. He said this was blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which of course we already knew. Then he said there was a second unforgivable sin. He said if you go to confession and lie, that sin would NEVER be forgiven. He repeated this statement a few times. As I had always understood it, there was only one unforgivable sin. Wouldn’t it be true that if you lied in confession, that would invalidate the confession and that none of the sins would be forgiven? In order to be in the state of grace again, you would need to go to confession again and confess to making a bad confession and then re-confess all sins from the previous confession. Am I correct? I would like to address this with the pastor (the associate said mass this day) but wanted to make sure I had my information correct before I spoke with him. Can someone chime in? Thanks.

 

[Newbie2]

Today at mass, the priest who gave the homily was talking about the Gospel reading concerning the unforgivable sin. He said this was blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which of course we already knew. Then he said there was a second unforgivable sin. He said if you go to confession and lie, that sin would NEVER be forgiven. He repeated this statement a few times. As I had always understood it, there was only one unforgivable sin. Wouldn’t it be true that if you lied in confession, that would invalidate the confession and that none of the sins would be forgiven? In order to be in the state of grace again, you would need to go to confession again and confess to making a bad confession and then re-confess all sins from the previous confession. Am I correct? I would like to address this with the pastor (the associate said mass this day) but wanted to make sure I had my information correct before I spoke with him. Can someone chime in? Thanks.

It depends on what one is lying about. Say somebody knew they masturbated four times since their last confession, they knew it was four but they deliberately confessed they had only done so once i.e. lied.

Would that invalidate the confession? Depends. Depends on the reason for lying. If a person was so ashamed that they had done so 4 times, but was truly sorry for doing so, did a penance, and later confessed that their last confession was purposefully accurate, then they would be forgiven for all. Such is not an “unforgivable sin”.

But is the person was lying and not confessing that sin, yep, that sin would not be forgiven until they repented of that sin. Maybe that’s what the priest meant?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Lying during confession is performing sacrilege on the Sacrament, and therefore you did not avail of the graces of that Sacrament. However, that doesn’t mean you cannot confess about it later on. God is infinitely merciful.

The reason the unforgivable sin is unforgivable, is because the Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth. If you lie even when given the spirit of truth, then you have resisted God himself, thus you cannot be in communion with God anymore.

 

[Barbkw]

I have to wonder if your priest is aware of the state of knowledge (lack of knowledge) that Catholics in our generation have about mortal and venial sin.

I had to find an adult examination guide online because one was not available in handout form at our Church.

catholicparents.org/oxcart/Examination%20of%20Conscience.pdf

And even then, I had to write out a list to ensure that I whole heartedly and honestly made an attempt to remember and recite my sins.

What about the Catholics who have no guide, no internet, etc? Those who are embarassed to recite certain sinful sexual actions?

IMO, there are better ways to handle a talk about actions inside the confessional than what your priest said. He could have said that inside of the confessional, he wants conversion of heart, and that it’s normal that some sins are embarassing, but that we’re all human and that he’s heard it all, etc.

And, when a person lies in the confessional, as I understand it, the person is required to reconfess the sins from that invalid confession. (I heard the two priests on EWTN discuss this on “Web of Faith”).

A person can repent of those sins. They are not unforgiveable - as your priest seems to be saying.

 

[Barbkw]

Fr. Corapi talks about the young man that came into his confessional and said he had no sins to confess but that his Mom was making him go.

So…Fr. Corapi starts down the list for the young man (because the young man is clueless) and low and behold the young man is having sex with his live in girlfriend.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Fr. Corapi talks about the young man that came into his confessional and said he had no sins to confess but that his Mom was making him go.

So…Fr. Corapi starts down the list for the young man (because the young man is clueless) and low and behold the young man is having sex with his live in girlfriend.

Er… isn’t this breaking the seal of Confession?

 

[Barbkw]

He didn’t name names.

 

[Joan_M]

Er… isn’t this breaking the seal of Confession?

No, it is not. There is no way anyone could have any idea of who the person might be.

 

[teachccd]

Today at mass, the priest who gave the homily was talking about the Gospel reading concerning the unforgivable sin. He said this was blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which of course we already knew. Then he said there was a second unforgivable sin. He said if you go to confession and lie, that sin would NEVER be forgiven. He repeated this statement a few times. As I had always understood it, there was only one unforgivable sin. Wouldn’t it be true that if you lied in confession, that would invalidate the confession and that none of the sins would be forgiven? In order to be in the state of grace again, you would need to go to confession again and confess to making a bad confession and then re-confess all sins from the previous confession. Am I correct? I would like to address this with the pastor (the associate said mass this day) but wanted to make sure I had my information correct before I spoke with him. Can someone chime in? Thanks.

Again was there such shame that the full consent of the lie became diminished? We tend to make so many blanket statements here. But the answer to your question is that all sin is forgiveable and you have it correct in your post.

 

[puzzleannie]

. Wouldn’t it be true that if you lied in confession, that would invalidate the confession and that none of the sins would be forgiven? In order to be in the state of grace again, you would need to go to confession again and confess to making a bad confession and then re-confess all sins from the previous confession. Am I correct? I would like to address this with the pastor (the associate said mass this day) but wanted to make sure I had my information correct before I spoke with him. Can someone chime in? Thanks.

your understanding is correct, and I think that is probably what the priest meant to say, merely that the confession would be invalid if you lied about or withheld mortal sin, and that the sins confessed at that time would not be forgiven–NOT that they would never be forgiven… you are quite right to ask him for clarification because if you heard wrong others might also have been misled.

 

[teachccd]

your understanding is correct, and I think that is probably what the priest meant to say, merely that the confession would be invalid if you lied about or withheld mortal sin, and that the sins confessed at that time would not be forgiven–NOT that they would never be forgiven… you are quite right to ask him for clarification because if you heard wrong others might also have been misled.

Yes, there was a priest who in his homily said that if an adult received baptism all of his previous sins would be forgiven and he would never have to go to confession again. He left it at that and I knew that he meant for all of his/her previous sins but some may have walked away with and idea that if you are baptized as an adult you never need to go to confession. So, it is best to clarify uncertainties with the homilist to make sure of his intentions… God bless… teachccd

 

[mercyangel]

Teachccd, you made a good point. I knew that what he said was inaccurate. I also think he just misspoke. But I figured others (especially those new to the faith) might not have known that this was said in error, The priest is foreign and sometimes he uses the wrong words together. I suppose that’s why he said what he said. Thanks

 

[LittleSoldier]

Today at mass, the priest who gave the homily was talking about the Gospel reading concerning the unforgivable sin. He said this was blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which of course we already knew. Then he said there was a second unforgivable sin. He said if you go to confession and lie, that sin would NEVER be forgiven. He repeated this statement a few times. As I had always understood it, there was only one unforgivable sin. Wouldn’t it be true that if you lied in confession, that would invalidate the confession and that none of the sins would be forgiven? In order to be in the state of grace again, you would need to go to confession again and confess to making a bad confession and then re-confess all sins from the previous confession. Am I correct? I would like to address this with the pastor (the associate said mass this day) but wanted to make sure I had my information correct before I spoke with him. Can someone chime in? Thanks.

The priest is wrong. ANY sin can be forgiven with the exception of a sin against the Holy Spirit and that sin is a refusal to atone for a mortal sin, even through death. I used to lie in Confession all the time when I was a kid. I was told by the Sisters at the school I attended that I HAD to say how many times I had committed each sin. But most of the time I was so guilt-ridden and scared that I didn’t commit any sins. I still had to go to Confession and that was a scary experience, especially because the priest knew who I was.

So I would make up sins. “Father, I lied three times and I was mean to my brother five times” and it was all a lie.

Then I had to wonder if the lies were forgiven in the first Confession or if I needed to confess them in my next Confession. I would then at least have a real sin to confess.

Poor catechesis, poor teaching, poor understanding of reconciliation.

If I believed what your priest said I can look forward to a long time in Purgatory, as I lied a lot in Confession before I understood what Confession is. I didn’t even know (up until a few months ago) that we aren’t even required to confess venial sins. Why wasn’t I taught that?

 

[teachccd]

Teachccd, you made a good point. I knew that what he said was inaccurate. I also think he just misspoke. But I figured others (especially those new to the faith) might not have known that this was said in error, The priest is foreign and sometimes he uses the wrong words together. I suppose that’s why he said what he said. Thanks

It’s always good to give the priest the benefit of the doubt. It is particularly unfortunate that some walked away with a wrong message but God will work out the details. I see so much bashing of our priests on these forums regarding the consultations in the confessional or the content of homilies and so on. I am not elluding to your post but in general we need to be supportive of our priests and when they make a mistake realize it as such and be pastoral to them as well. God bless you … teachccd

 

[Dave_B]

It’s always good to give the priest the benefit of the doubt. It is particularly unfortunate that some walked away with a wrong message but God will work out the details. I see so much bashing of our priests on these forums regarding the consultations in the confessional or the content of homilies and so on. I am not elluding to your post but in general we need to be supportive of our priests and when they make a mistake realize it as such and be pastoral to them as well.

Well put. I think we all need to support priests, and bear in mind that they are only human. As I understand it priests and the pope have to give confession to other priests.

Point of interest in the Anglican church we dont have confession. But spend a lot of time in the liturgy at communion and evensong confessing sins. I guess this amounts to pretty much the same thing. We just dont call it a sacrament.

 

[zalzankavol]

Priests and bishops are easy targets for bashing, and this is unfortunate. They are vilified in the press in all forms of media. They are second-guessed, back seat driven, and downright disrespected far too often, even by Catholics. I have seen parish staff destroy clergy behind their backs, while smiling to their face.

One thing that I have found often to be true is that too few people approach their clergy when they have a problem with something said or done. Please ask your priest or even your bishop to clarify something that bothers you or you don’t understand. People assume perhaps that because someone is a Pastor or priest that they are “set” in their ways or perhaps even omniscient. You’d be surprised how much an encounter with a parishioner can have an impact on a priest’s point of view. Its no different than any other kind of leader. If they still insist on something that you feel is not correct, ask them to suggest where you can go/read for a better understanding, or even make an appointment with them to discuss it further.

Now, I have read extensively on the subject of the unforgivable sin, and it all seems to come down to this: if you deny the Holy Spirit, you yourself are foregoing the opportunity for Grace. People are totally free to reject God. That being said, we see from the catechism itself that God has stacked the deck for us; he has created us with an internal capacity to know him. So, even the “unforgivable sin” can be overcome at the moment one ceases rejecting the Holy Spirit.

 

[teachccd]

Priests and bishops are easy targets for bashing, and this is unfortunate. They are vilified in the press in all forms of media. They are second-guessed, back seat driven, and downright disrespected far too often, even by Catholics. I have seen parish staff destroy clergy behind their backs, while smiling to their face.

One thing that I have found often to be true is that too few people approach their clergy when they have a problem with something said or done. Please ask your priest or even your bishop to clarify something that bothers you or you don’t understand. People assume perhaps that because someone is a Pastor or priest that they are “set” in their ways or perhaps even omniscient. You’d be surprised how much an encounter with a parishioner can have an impact on a priest’s point of view. Its no different than any other kind of leader. If they still insist on something that you feel is not correct, ask them to suggest where you can go/read for a better understanding, or even make an appointment with them to discuss it further.

Now, I have read extensively on the subject of the unforgivable sin, and it all seems to come down to this: if you deny the Holy Spirit, you yourself are foregoing the opportunity for Grace. People are totally free to reject God. That being said, we see from the catechism itself that God has stacked the deck for us; he has created us with an internal capacity to know him. So, even the “unforgivable sin” can be overcome at the moment one ceases rejecting the Holy Spirit.

Excellent post. Very well stated!

 

[teachccd]

Well put. I think we all need to support priests, and bear in mind that they are only human. As I understand it priests and the pope have to give confession to other priests.

Point of interest in the Anglican church we dont have confession. But spend a lot of time in the liturgy at communion and evensong confessing sins. I guess this amounts to pretty much the same thing. We just dont call it a sacrament.

In Catholicism we find that Jesus gave His authority to forgive sins to His apostles on the day of His resurrection. (See John 20: 19-23) In order for them and their successors to forgive or retain sin they must hear the person’s sins. This sacrament took on different forms since its institution but the basis remains the same. Since, through ordination, we have a line of succession going back to the apostles we recognize that when we visit the Sacrament of Reconciliation we are actually in the presence of Christ. The imposition of hands is unbroken from the time of Christ.

We are all part of the body of Christ and we all share His graces received in our baptism. I continually pray, as Jesus did in John 17, that we may all be one. We will be in heaven… God bless you… teachccd

My intention is not to derail this thread but sin and the Sacrament of Reconciliation do tie together and, yes, ALL sin can be forgiven until our last breath.

 

[DavidKays]

Today at mass, the priest who gave the homily was talking about the Gospel reading concerning the unforgivable sin. He said this was blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which of course we already knew. Then he said there was a second unforgivable sin. He said if you go to confession and lie, that sin would NEVER be forgiven. He repeated this statement a few times. As I had always understood it, there was only one unforgivable sin. Wouldn’t it be true that if you lied in confession, that would invalidate the confession and that none of the sins would be forgiven? In order to be in the state of grace again, you would need to go to confession again and confess to making a bad confession and then re-confess all sins from the previous confession. Am I correct? I would like to address this with the pastor (the associate said mass this day) but wanted to make sure I had my information correct before I spoke with him. Can someone chime in? Thanks.

Not everyone is an expert on themselves or on sin. Supposely the priest will think you have some knowledge on it but by and large alot of people are ignorant. People who are lying may be doing so because they are embarrass or they do not think they need to confess all their sins. Really I believe alot of laypeople are going to confession illadvised and they need us to retrain them and help them better understand the sacrament. God is merciful and He does understand you better than yourself. I am sure God will not hold against you, any sins that you may be hiding because of your lack of trust or because you are embarrass to come out with it, or your lack of knowledge in knowing your own sins. You may be just plain ignorant. While just confess that the next time you go. Lying is very serious however if the circumstance is because of ignorance, embarrassment or just lacking in knowledge I will not be so hard on that person.