Unitarians, explain john 9:38

[Trevor_Stamm]

Hello,

I just want to hear the counter argument against this verse for those that deny the Trinity, please explain John 9:38 when Jesus healed the blind man and asked him if he believed if the Son of God was Jesus and his reply was…

Rheims
“And he said: I believe, Lord. And falling down, he adored him.”

KJB
“And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.”

NJB
“The man said, ‘Lord, I believe,’ and worshipped him.”

RSV
“He said, “Lord, I believe”; and he worshiped him.”

Also take into account Revelation 22:6-9 when the angel appeared to John.

RSV
[6] And he said to me, "These words are trustworthy and true. And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must soon take place.

[7] And behold, I am coming soon."
Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.

[8] I John am he who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me;

[9] but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brethren the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.”

So if Jesus was not God, why did he not tell the blind man the same thing?

 

[Jguerra]

So if Jesus was not God, why did he not tell the blind man the same thing.

.
I’m Catholic and I’m willing to bet my last pre-Lenten treat today that a unitarian will say that the blind man bowed down and worshipped God after professing his belief in Him–he just happened to be doing that in front of Jesus. The unitarian will then add that Jesus didn’t stop the man because Jesus knew exactly what the blind man was doing and would not want to stop this moment of adoring God.

My take is, a non-believer will mistranslate proof verses to fit his/her skewed theology.

My two cents,

Joe

 

[fbl9]

And the oneness pentacostal will tell you yes Jesus is God the Father, the Holy Spirit, and the Son depending on which “hat” He is wearing at that particular time.

 

[TimothyH]

And the Jehovah’s cut right to the chase and just changed it to say “And he did obeisance to him.”

Gotta admire their chutzpah.

-Tim-

 

[Trevor_Stamm]

And the oneness pentacostal will tell you yes Jesus is God the Father, the Holy Spirit, and the Son depending on which “hat” He is wearing at that particular time.

Modalism? Lol, I’ll have them read Gen 18.

And the Jehovah’s cut right to the chase and just changed it to say “And he did obeisance to him.”

Gotta admire their chutzpah.

-Tim-

Funny, same thing I’ll have them read even their version (NWT) of Gen 18. And after that have them read the Hebrew text.

 

[Publisher]

Hello,

I just want to hear the counter argument against this verse for those that deny the Trinity, please explain John 9:38 when Jesus healed the blind man and asked him if he believed if the Son of God was Jesus and his reply was…

Rheims
“And he said: I believe, Lord. And falling down, he adored him.”

KJB
“And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.”

NJB
“The man said, ‘Lord, I believe,’ and worshipped him.”

RSV
“He said, “Lord, I believe”; and he worshiped him.”

Also take into account Revelation 22:6-9 when the angel appeared to John.

RSV
[6] And he said to me, "These words are trustworthy and true. And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must soon take place.

[7] And behold, I am coming soon."
Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.

[8] I John am he who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me;

[9] but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brethren the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.”

So if Jesus was not God, why did he not tell the blind man the same thing?

I am not a Unitarian…but I will perhaps be able to answer in a moderately accurate way…as I read those passages, I “hear” the “chant” or “litany” of what those early Johanine Christian communities came to believe about Jesus of Nazareth. I would not necessarily believe that Jesus of Nazareth ever uttered such words…but through his “voice” in the Gospel of John…the “confession” of that community was placed in the “mouth of Jesus” in writing.

 

[Nicea325]

And the Jehovah’s cut right to the chase and just changed it to say “And he did obeisance to him.”

Gotta admire their chutzpah.

-Tim-

Yep! If Jesus is only a perfect creature as JW’s teach,then how can a perfect creature redeem all of humanity? I thought only God was capable of such a feat?

 

[Bran_Stark]

Well to be fair, these words don’t have to mean the honor due only unto God. We might a call cute baby “adorable” - doesn’t mean we think he’s divine. And in the old Anglican marriage service the man says to his bride, “with my body I thee worship…”.

 

[benidict]

Well to be fair, these words don’t have to mean the honor due only unto God. We might a call cute baby “adorable” - doesn’t mean we think he’s divine. And in the old Anglican marriage service the man says to his bride, “with my body I thee worship…”.

Im pretty sure the context proves that the worship they were giving to Jesus, WAS the worship they were to give to God alone…I think even the blind man Recognized Who He was. Its amazing that those who claim they can see…

 

[Major_Tom]

Hello,

I just want to hear the counter argument against this verse for those that deny the Trinity, please explain John 9:38 when Jesus healed the blind man and asked him if he believed if the Son of God was Jesus and his reply was…

Rheims
“And he said: I believe, Lord. And falling down, he adored him.”

KJB
“And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.”

NJB
“The man said, ‘Lord, I believe,’ and worshipped him.”

RSV
“He said, “Lord, I believe”; and he worshiped him.”

Also take into account Revelation 22:6-9 when the angel appeared to John.

RSV
[6] And he said to me, "These words are trustworthy and true. And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must soon take place.

[7] And behold, I am coming soon."
Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.

[8] I John am he who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me;

[9] but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brethren the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.”

So if Jesus was not God, why did he not tell the blind man the same thing?

Well, the first thing that springs to mind is: would you be persuaded to accept a position contrary to your faith if I quoted a reading from the Koran? I’m gonna guess not…

Short answer: I don’t think that the concept of the Trinity adds much to my daily life, spiritual life, nor to my understanding of what God is. I can’t prove that it’s wrong, nor do I spend a lot of time trying.

 

[trinitybeliever]

Short answer: I don’t think that the concept of the Trinity adds much to my daily life, spiritual life, nor to my understanding of what God is. I can’t prove that it’s wrong, nor do I spend a lot of time trying.

Sorry for my ignorance of Unitarian Theology. Don’t you believe that ones understanding of what and who God is has a direct bearing on their daily and spiritual life? What significance, if any, does the death and resurrection of Christ have to you?

 

[Trevor_Stamm]

Well, the first thing that springs to mind is: would you be persuaded to accept a position contrary to your faith if I quoted a reading from the Koran? I’m gonna guess not…

Short answer: I don’t think that the concept of the Trinity adds much to my daily life, spiritual life, nor to my understanding of what God is. I can’t prove that it’s wrong, nor do I spend a lot of time trying.

… Not trying to be impolite here my friend, but I presented this thread to ask Unitarians what is their response is to that verse. I’m trying to learn your counter points, not how it affects your daily life.

So far, no counterpoints at all

ps. This is a Catholic forum, this thread was started by someone converting to Catholicism, and it’s directed at other Christians who don’t believe in the Trinity, why on earth would I consider the Quran in this conversation when you know the stance of a Catholic concerning Islam?

 

[seeker57]

Well, you asked for Unitarian responses, but you didn’t specify Unitarian Christians, so I will respond, even though I am a Unitarian Universalist.

You are asking for arguments against a particular biblical quote, or reinterpretations of a biblical quote.

The Bible teaches some good lessons, but cannot be taken literally. As one of my favorite UU ministers stated, “The Bible is a good book, but there are others.”

Some Christians seem to believe the Bible contains absolute truth. I do not. Therefore, citing passages from it neither proves nor disproves anything for me.

Likewise, the concept of the trinity is not a part of my spirituality, therefore, arguments for or against it are irrelevant.

Seeker

 

[Major_Tom]

ps. This is a Catholic forum, this thread was started by someone converting to Catholicism, and it’s directed at other Christians who don’t believe in the Trinity, why on earth would I consider the Quran in this conversation when you know the stance of a Catholic concerning Islam?

As Seeker also pointed out, Unitarians would be technically be considered non-Christians. So the question is asking a non-Christian to react to the Gospel. Certainly, a Catholic is going to place much more emphasis on the Gosepl of John than I would. Similarly, a Muslim would place much more emphasis on the Koran than you would.

As a former Catholic, I’m familiar with the Gosepl of John. It’s an interesting book, but unlike Catholics, I don’t think that it was influenced by the Holy Spirit. I don’t think that it sheds a whole lot of light on God’s true character. One of the things that I find most interesting about it is how differently it addresses Jesus and God, when compared to the synoptic Gospels.

… Not trying to be impolite here my friend, but I presented this thread to ask Unitarians what is their response is to that verse. I’m trying to learn your counter points, not how it affects your daily life.

I’d have to say that my counterpoints are stated above. I don’t spend much time dwelling on the Trinity; I find it to be a concept that gets in the way, rather than shedding light on what God is.

 

[Major_Tom]

Sorry for my ignorance of Unitarian Theology. Don’t you believe that ones understanding of what and who God is has a direct bearing on their daily and spiritual life? What significance, if any, does the death and resurrection of Christ have to you?

I find the life and death of Jesus to be a very compelling story. After wrestling with it for some time, I decided that I cannot say, with 100% confidence, that Jesus was indeed divine. Instead of denying that doubt, I acknowledged it, and found it very liberating. I still consider Christianity to be a source of wisdom.

There is great mystery as to how God expresses himself to us. One of the many ways that he may express himself is through Jesus. Just like he could express himself through Buddha… or you… or me.

 

[Publisher]

I find the life and death of Jesus to be a very compelling story. After wrestling with it for some time, I decided that I cannot say, with 100% confidence, that Jesus was indeed divine. Instead of denying that doubt, I acknowledged it, and found it very liberating. I still consider Christianity to be a source of wisdom.

There is great mystery as to how God expresses himself to us. One of the many ways that he may express himself is through Jesus. Just like he could express himself through Buddha… or you… or me.

Friend i unite with you on this.

 

[Major_Tom]

Friend i unite with you on this.